Mrmango

5 hours ago, ChiFlyer said:

Link for best selling EVs in Thailland.

https://carnewschina.com/2024/01/09/byd-is-bestselling-ev-brand-in-thailand-in-2023-neta-is-runner-up/

A link for info about EV cars in Thailand.

https://www.scb.co.th/en/personal-banking/stories/home-car/buy-ev-car.html

https://futurefluxtech.com/the-new-test-reveals-electric-cars-are-practically-unusable-in-winter/#:~:text=Is It True That the,weather affects the battery performance.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/teslas-electric-vehicles-cold-weather/

Chicago-area Tesla charging stations lined with dead cars in freezing cold:... 15

Many Chicago-area Tesla owners were visibly frustrated on Monday after their electric vehicles failed to charge amid freezing temperatures.

1 hour ago, KhunDon said:

But this isn’t about charging is it, it’s about EV’s working in the freezing temperatures and it seems it worked for them, both at the North and South Poles. 

No its not.

Let me clarify my position. The problem with battery EV is when they get very cold they simply stop working, as evidenced in the big problems in the US this winter.

its that they wont work from  a cold start, not if they work when warm in extreme cold weather

And both the Artic and Antarctic can be quite pleasant and mild sometimes in their summer.

37 minutes ago, KhunDon said:

One for MrMango. 🤣
 

https://global.nissannews.com/en/releases/pole-to-pole-ev-expedition-reaches-the-south-pole

Really? Pray tell me exactly how many charging stations there are at he South Pole?

A pure publicity stunt.

49 minutes ago, KhunDon said:

No they don’t. They sell loads of EV’s in Canada, which are used through their very cold winters. 

In Minnesota this winter, during a bad storm, there were numerous news reports of EV's being stranded when they simply turned into a brick.

I agree, they run fine in cold weather, but when the battery gets below a certain temp., it's a brick.

4 hours ago, Zeb said:

EV fact or fiction: busting common electric vehicle myths

As electric vehicles (EVs) gain popularity, they also garner criticism.

Here, we debunk the most common myths and misconceptions surrounding electric cars, ranging from reasonable to the downright bizarre.

With the emergence of electrified motoring in Australia and the shake-up of global transportation and infrastructure convention it poses, EVs have become a hot topic – attracting (possibly more than) their fair share of criticism.

While the NRMA has been supporting Australian motorists for more than 100 years – and will continue to regardless of how your vehicle is powered – we believe an EV shouldn’t be off the table as your next purchase because of misrepresentations, myths or anti-EV propaganda.

So, to give Australian buyers the clarity needed to make informed choices about whether their next vehicle purchase should be an EV, here are some of the most common EV myths, busted.

Myths about EV batteries
EV batteries don’t last very long

One of the most prevailing myths surrounding EVs is that their most expensive component – the on-board battery packs – don’t last the life of the vehicle.

EV battery lifespan critics need look no further than the story of this Tesla Model X which has, to this day, travelled more than 640,000km – its original battery pack lasting more than 507,000km – to see this is false. 

This EV, among others with similar mileage, is owned by California-based EV mobility company Tesloop.

Why is this important?

Well, Tesloop uses its fleet commercially, meaning its charging regime and maintenance is about the worst possible for ensuring battery longevity: a full discharge; followed by a rapid charge rate, and; charging to 100 per cent capacity.

Put simply, this EV's battery packs racked up more than 500,000km without even following proper maintenance and charging practices - 25 years if driving 20,000km a year.

An more recent example closer to home is that of an Australian Tesla owner who uses his Tesla Model S for airport pickups, using fast chargers the vast majority of the time.

The EV battery in his Tesla was replaced after 666,666km, an equivalent of 33 years driving with an average of 20,000km a year. 

For those wondering how long EV batteries last in vehicles made by other carmakers, a crowd-sourced study of 15,000 EVs by Recurrent Auto shows that after ten years' use, the average battery replacement rate for EVs is at most 4 per cent.

Older EVs with less advanced battery management systems have a higher replacement rate of 7.5 per cent.

Despite these examples, it’s also not safe to assume all battery packs will make it so far.

Much like petrol engines, covering half a million kilometres is a great run, but there is always the exception to the rule.

However, the good news is that the cost of replacing an EV battery is falling, and by 2030 are expected to cost 40 per cent less than today.

EV batteries deteriorate over time

While battery packs can get you more than half-a-million kilometres, it’s also true their driving range diminishes over time – however this deterioration is not as dramatic as you may be led to believe.

In 2019, a study carried out by Electric Autonomy, a Canadian government-backed organisation that tracks the electric vehicle transition, looked at battery capacity deterioration of 21 electric vehicle models over five years of driving.

The study found that EV batteries lose, on average, just 2.3 per cent of capacity per year of driving.

For a car with a 480km driving range when new, this means 55km of driving range was lost in half a decade of service – about 11km per year.

Additionally, the EV battery longevity study by Recurrent Auto mentioned above also shows that most degradation occurs in the first 80,000km of ownership. And degradation is not linear - the largest drops in range occur in the first year or two of ownership before levelling out. 

electric vehicle car battery ev

Need more assurance? Manufacturers guarantee their batteries, with the most common EV battery warranty period lasting eight years/160,000km. This warranty covers batteries that lose more than 30 per cent of their capacity during this period (meaning the battery retains less than 70 per cent of its original capacity).

According to the Electric Autonomy study’s rate of deterioration, the average EV won’t approach that kind of degradation before its 13th birthday.

At this point an EV with a 480km range when new should still cover 336km between charges – more than enough to make it a practical city car (given the average Australian work commute is about 35km) with the occasional road trip thrown in.

Replacement EV batteries are too expensive

We know EV batteries can last a really long time, but are they expensive to replace if something goes wrong outside of the warranty period?

The simple answer is: yes, but costs are decreasing.

Replacement EV batteries, given variances in size and complexity, don’t have a standard price, but a safe window for cost of replacement is about $8,000–$20,000 for an average size EV battery.

While these are large amounts, it’s important to remember the internal combustion engine (ICE) in a conventional vehicle is also its most expensive item, with prices often approaching the above figures if replacement with a new unit is necessary.

Also, as mentioned above, financial analysts predict the price of batteries will drop drastically in coming years. This should bring the cost to replace an EV battery down significantly.

It's also a good idea to factor in the cost of owning an EV holistically over the life of the vehicle.

EV battery packs, and much of the vehicles themselves, cost next to nothing to maintain. Over the years, these savings on engine, transmission and brake components add up.

Factor in not paying a premium at the bowser and by the time you need a replacement battery – if you ever do – you may have more than made up the expense.

Myths about charging an EV

An EV charged from the grid isn’t ‘green’

This is one of the more unreasonable myths we’ve come across, as it blames EV technology for things out of its control.

The truth is an EV can only be as ‘green’ as the electrical grid from which it’s charged. In Australia, our grid is (currently) heavily reliant on coal, so when driving an EV charged from the grid there are associated emissions. However, EV motors are more efficient at using energy than ICE cars, and the grid is becoming greener year by year.

Research carried out by the NRMA and PwC Australia found that a new battery electric vehicle (BEV) charged from the grid is responsible for around 98g CO2/km of emissions, whereas an equivalent new ICE vehicle emits almost double that at 185g CO2/km.

ev electric vehicle charging charge co2 emissions ice nrma

Modelling also shows that as our grid becomes increasingly powered by renewables, and EV battery technology improves, this BEV emission figure will fall to about 58g CO2/km – less than a third of an ICE vehicle.

At a street-level, most electric cars also produce less fine particulate matter than equivalent ICE models, meaning the air in the you breath in walking alongside a road full of electric cars is not as damaging to your health as one packed with ICE vehicles.

Further to this, EV owners do not have to charge from the grid. When charged solely with renewable energy – such as from a home charger powered by solar – the cars are responsible for basically zero greenhouse emissions while driving.

Our grid won’t cope with an uptake of EVs 

As debate shifts from “will EVs even take off Down Under?” to “how will infrastructure manage when they do?”, one of the largest focuses for future-proofing Australia has been its electrical grid’s capacity.

Modelling conducted by Reliable Affordable Clean Energy (RACE) for 2030 Cooperative Research Centre estimates EVs will make up 80 per cent of new-car sales in Australia by 2030 – representing 20 to 25 per cent of our total fleet.

This report calculated that if all of these EVs were plugged into 7kW home chargers at the same time (during an evening period), the instantaneous draw on the grid would increase by approximately 30 giga watts – almost doubling current peak energy demands.

While this figure could lead to a huge instantaneous burden on the grid, RACE’s calculations also determined a 25 per cent EV fleet would only lead to a cumulative consumption increase of 20 giga-watt-hour a day.

In relative terms, if that extra consumption was spread evenly across the day, it would only result in an increased instantaneous demand of about 3 to 4 per cent across the day.

Two important things to remember here are:

EV uptake – although accelerating – will not happen overnight, and there will be time to develop and future-proof our infrastructure to suit any increase in energy demand, and

other nations with much greater EV uptake are already experimenting with scheduled EV charging to help cushion the blow to their electrical grid.

Charging an EV takes much longer than refuelling a car 

This one is true – for now. Australia is in an especially tricky chicken and egg situation when it comes to public chargers and even EV models themselves.

In past years the absence of an EV strategy from government has meant carmakers were reluctant to bring more EV models, and fast charging infrastructure was sparse.

But the introduction of a National Electric Vehicle Strategy now means there is more investment in a EV infrastructure, part of which includes the national EV charging network that the NRMA is rolling out.

Also, the introduction of a New Vehicle Efficiency Standard will ensure that carmakers are encouraged to bring more EV models with increasingly faster charging capabilities.

But how long does it take to charge an EV? It all depends on where you are charging, and other factors like how fast your car can charge, and how "full" your batter already is.

Today, the fastest public chargers in Australia output 350kW DC. While there are currently no electric cars that can handle this rate of charging, some brands have promised charge times from 5 to 80 per cent in as little as eight minutes for future models at this output.

In the works are chargers producing up to 1000kW. EV battery tech may take a while to catch up to this sort of figure, but when it does, charge times could come down to the mere minute or two it takes to fill a car’s tank with petrol or diesel.

In the meantime, stopping for half an hour on a road trip to recharge yourself as well as your car is the answer!

A further consideration is if you charge your EV at home overnight, like many drivers will do during normal day-to-day driving, you will very rarely need to rely on public charging infrastructure. There are also other options for charging an EV if you live in an apartment or a terrace.

Myths about driving an EV
You can’t tow with an EV

The claim that EVs can’t tow is patently false, with many models in the Australian market listing Aussie regulation-compliant tow capacities. However, this being said, just because an EV can tow does not make it a viable tow vehicle for all owners and circumstances.

A huge reduction in driving range while towing is the main issue cited by EV sceptics – and it’s not without grounds. This also happens with an internal combustion engine (ICE) car but as there are lots of service stations it is not as much of a concern.  

In 2020, Audi USA conducted an 811-kilometre test with their all-electric e-Tron towing at its 1800kg capacity limit. What did they find? Averaging 97km/h, the SUV consumed about 48kWh per 100km – approaching double the model’s regular consumption figure if it weren't towing. At this rate, the biggest battery option e-Tron (95kWh) would travel just 200km on a full charge.

Our own Open Road EV towing test by Tim Pomroy showed that when towing a trailer with an EV, the combined laden weight of 630kg reduced the towing range of a Polestar 2 by 90km (equal to a 23 per cent increase in energy use.) 

In short, how much towing will affect an EV’s driving range varies depending on the weight of the payload and the wind resistance it generates. This additional drag affects both electric and ICE vehicles.

Retro caravan on roadside

So, can EVs tow? Yes they can, and, given the impressive torque figures many EVs boast, are very well suited to it in the right applications. Need to tow a caravan across the Nullarbor? An EV probably isn’t for you (yet), but pulling a box trailer or dinghy across town? That’s right up an EV’s alley.

EVs are slow

While the EVs of yesteryear had (comparatively) tiny battery capacities and discharge rates resulting in doughy acceleration, this is no longer the case.

Performance records are being set and beaten constantly by modern EVs due to the inherent nature of how an EV accelerates.

Torque – the rotational force an engine/motor produces and transfers to a vehicle’s wheels – is an EV’s bread and butter.

Torque is also what gets a car moving from a standstill, meaning EVs can go from zero to fast in a small amount of time.

Beyond this, as EVs generate torque near-instantly, their traction control systems also surpass what ICE performance vehicles’ are capable of, meaning they can more fully capitalise on tyre grip to provide faster acceleration.

EVs get better driving range the slower you’re going 

This is true. An EV’s driving range tends to improve as its speed decreases, whereas ICE vehicles generally experience the opposite up to freeway speeds. Why is this?

The largest reason lays in gear ratios, i.e. how many revs an engine/motor must make per rotation of the driving wheels. Some gear ratios are better suited to low-speed or standing start acceleration, whereas others are suited to efficient high-speed cruising.

Due to the way EVs produce torque, most come equipped with single-speed transmissions (save some high-performance models) and manufacturers opt for around-town punchiness over highway efficiency when selecting this ratio.

This is different to ICE-equipped vehicles, where manufacturers use multi-speed (or multi-ratio) transmissions to ensure the car always has a suitable gear ratio.

The result is EVs are more efficient at low speeds due to not having to rev their electric motors as high, which also produces heat – the enemy of efficient electrical energy transfer. However, as EVs approach price parity, we’re likely to see multi-speed transmissions become more commonplace in the vehicles and for their highway consumption to improve.

Additionally, in stop-start traffic an EV can use regenerative braking more often to recover energy back to the battery rather than losing it in heat via the brake pads. This also increases range.

EV manufacturing myths
EVs are more polluting during production than ICE vehicles 

The pollution generated during a vehicle’s production is known as its ‘well-to-wheel’ emission(s). While it's been established that EVs produce less emissions than ICE vehicles while driving, they do contribute more pollution during their production.

An EV’s most expensive and complicated component, its on-board battery pack is primarily responsible for these increased emissions.

However, as battery technology and materials advance and the energy density of batteries increases, less material will be needed to achieve the same kilowatt-hour capacity. This will bring down manufacturing costs and emissions.

An EV doesn’t offset its manufacturing emissions 

Because EV manufacturing produces higher greenhouse emissions than for ICE vehicles, EVs must be driven to a ‘break-even point’ before they are greener than ICE vehicles.

An EV’s break-even point is when the vehicle has, over its lifecycle, become responsible for the same emissions as a comparable ICE vehicle.

This distance varies depending on the model of EV, the way it’s driven and the grid from which it’s charged. Thanks to an analysis conducted by Reuters using Argonne National Laboratory modelling, we have some figures.

The analysis looked at a Tesla Model 3 and Toyota Corolla – Australia’s best-selling EV and small car respectively – to work out the break-even point of the Tesla according to three grid configurations.

It found that if charged from a 100 per cent coal-fired grid, the Model 3 needs to cover about 125,500km to break even. From the average United States’ energy mix (of 23 per cent coal-fired, plus other fossil fuels and renewables), the Model 3 matches the Corolla in roughly 21,700km, and on a 100 per cent hydroelectric grid, the Tesla has already contributed less emissions in just over 13,500km of driving.

ev myths electric vehicle toyota tesla emissions

As of early 2022, an average of roughly 75 per cent of Australia’s grid is powered by fossil fuels. While this varies from state to state, on average it means a Model 3 charged in Australia would need to cover about 94,000km to break even. Although that’s a lot of driving, the good news is that this figure will drop each year as Australia moves towards a greener grid. And of course, it is much lower already if the car is charged primarily at home using solar.

EV batteries can’t be recycled 

While recycling the lithium-ion (Li-ion) batteries found in EVs is a tricky (and underutilised) practice, claims it cannot be done are simply false.

Australia’s own EcoBatt breaks down and selling on the precious metals in EV batteries. In fact, they’ve gotten so good at it that the company says up to 95 per cent of the average EV battery is able to be recycled.

Other companies, such as Australia’s Relectrify reuse individual cells, rebirthing decommissioned EVs’ battery packs for us as building battery energy storage systems.

However, while EV batteries can be recycled, the practice is underutilised globally and in Australia.

A 2021 study by the CSIRO found that just 2 per cent of Australia’s 3,300-tonne Li-ion battery waste was recycled locally in the year prior. However, it is important to note that the vast majority of this waste comes from small Li-ion batteries used in devices like phones, tablets and handheld power tools. And, most of this waste was shipped overseas, not dumped into Australian landfill as some claim.

Nevertheless, large scale recycling of Li-ion batteries is imperative. The study says that the nation’s Li-ion waste is growing at 20 per cent per year, and is predicted to exceed 100,000 tonnes by 2036. Li-ion waste is inherently dangerous, as it poses risks of combustion and environmental contamination.

The good news is that because EV batteries are useful for two decades (and can be used in second-life applications after that,) there is time to scale up EV battery recycling.

And because they are full of valuable materials, they are worth too much to simply take to the tip.
 

https://www.mynrma.com.au/electric-vehicles/basics/ev-myths?

And of course, this puff piece ignored the biggest problem - In very cold weather, they simply turn into a big brick.

16 minutes ago, galenkia said:

Mushroom spaghetti bolognaise, potato with whole grain mustard and some vegetables.

Spaghetti with Potatoes?

That would be illegal in Italy.

7 hours ago, Butch said:

It'll possibly be a pay per mile using the vehicle telemetry to bill the end user each month, all agreed in the T&C's when you purchase the vehicle or passed as road traffic law. Tampering will be a criminal offence of fraud, as you'll be evading tax.

In the US, its already a crime to tamper with the Odometer.

2 hours ago, Zeb said:

Taxes from fossil fuels used in motor vehicles have far exceeded road maintenance costs in many countries anyway and have just become part of general taxation - so a broader rethink looks necessary in terms of equity and cutting emissions.

We agree that Governments over tax cars and trucks for all kinds of cray things.

But why would you assume that they will not keep doing that for EV's?

6 hours ago, Butch said:

This will continue along the current trend as EV's become more popular. My only reservation is that as Govts lose tax revenue on fuel, they will seek to obtain or redress that shortfall elsewhere. This also may mean that less demand for fuel for ICE vehicles translates into cheaper pump prices. (only my opinion).

I don't have your Pollyanna optimism to the Government that you do. if the EV population increases greatly, the Government will of course, raise the taxes on the use of them to maintain and probably increase the income from EV cars and trucks.

You can take that to the bank.

7 hours ago, Glasseye said:

Then cut them in half. Threat ended, but will be a little bit messy.

Yep. Mafia hit men were called house painters.....

6 hours ago, Butch said:

Am I correct when I ask that if a burglar, armed, enters your house or property without permission and intending to steal / harm, I understand that in all states you have the legal right to defend yourself using a firearm, and if needs be, use lethal force?.

That's impossible to answer. There are 50 States and they are the ruling jurisdiction, not the Federal Government and each has its own laws that would govern the scenario you posted. 

On 3/1/2024 at 8:25 AM, Butch said:

Duxford is brilliant, but the food is hellishly expensive.

When I was there I walked through Concorde (never realised how tiny it actually was) and around the Comet. They've got a few decent displays of Warbirds and some restoration going on as well.

I have flown on the Concord a couple of times, and it is indeed tiny. I am a bit over 6 foot tall and I could not stand up entering it. It is very narrow also with 4 abreast seating in narrow seats and only about 100 seats - A small bird!

But it was the experience of a lifetime.

Just now, Mrmango said:

My first purchase was about $500 as I remember, and my highest one was about 25,000.

What ever happened to Pete? 

1 hour ago, Butch said:

You're not alone on that one mate. Don't beat yourself up, I missed that party boat as well, but brought in at $800 after LDK told me I was an idiot.

My first purchase was about $500 as I remember, and my highest one was about 25,000.

Pattaya Pete tried to get me t buy bitcoin when it was under $50

39 minutes ago, Freee!! said:

Next time nuclear kicks in it will be fusion, not fission, so completely different cooling requirements.

For the last 50 years or se, Fusion power is only 10 years away.

1 hour ago, johnpat said:

I challenge anyone to go into a gogo today and not rely on your memory from days gone by.    Talk to a girl.  Don't worry they won't bite but you will be shocked at the lady drink prices if you haven't been a gogo for a while.   If they are chatty and not a newbie ask about their contract.   They may tell you.   Then tell us here.

  You are looking for five numbers: 

1.  how much do they get for N days (e.g. 20,000 for 10 days)
2. how many drinks must they sell
3. how much do they get their salary cut for each missing drink
4. how many bar fines
5. how much do they get their salary cut for each barfine they didn't get.

very simple... and then use grade school math to compute how much of item 1 (the "salary") is paid by customers and how much is paid by the bar.

 ok.. who is brave enough to actually enter a gogo?

 

 

Why should anybody care about that?

How much did you make last year? Answer please.

2 minutes ago, forqalso said:

A lot of things are better than starving. You should see what some people will suck just to get something warm in their belly.

I totally agree!

I was rebutting to the wacko quote that implied that work was not necessary.

2 hours ago, forqalso said:

Sounds a lot better than not working and starving. 

1 hour ago, fygjam said:

Actualy one of my favorite Mexican dishes is BBQ baby goat.

40 minutes ago, Stillearly said:

50 minutes ago, johnpat said:

They don't pay the girls.  All the money the girls get is from the drinks they sell and thus from customers.

 

That surprises me , I haven't found the girls that pushy for drinks in there ..

the usual lies from him

5 hours ago, KhunDon said:

What the Unions have done to, or done for the US manufacturing industry? 😉

In general, made it not competitive, and drove it offshore.

5 hours ago, Glasseye said:

 

Sounds like just hat one of our resident SF members needs

1 hour ago, Freee!! said:

In that case those Unions failed and should take a look across the Atlantic, most European Unions understand that part of their job is to make sure the members have a job.

You obviously don't have a clue hat the Unions ahve done to the US manufacturing industry.

On 1/23/2024 at 7:29 PM, Glasseye said:

The bean counters, politicians, techies destroyed the manufacturing base. Driving through various parts of the Midwest you could see shut down plants of all sorts - "The Rust Belt"

Dont forgett he Unions who drove costs up that made them not competitive.