COVID 19 GLOBAL

[galenkia]

9 hours ago, dcfc2007 said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55516277

Imagine how many people would have been vaccinated in the UK if professionals didn't have to go through diversity and inclusion before giving out vaccines. 

🤡

My GP's 'preventing radicalisation' training came in handy last time I saw her for my results and she stopped me blowing up her surgery. 

[KWA]

13 hours ago, Bazle said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/01/health/coronavirus-vaccines-britain.html#click=https://t.co/qMCASW4vFc

Britain Opens Door to Mix-and-Match Vaccinations, Worrying Experts

Amid a sputtering vaccine rollout and fears of a new and potentially more transmissible variant of the coronavirus, Britain has quietly updated its vaccination playbook to allow for a mix-and-match vaccine regimen. If a second dose of the vaccine a patient originally received isn’t available, or if the manufacturer of the first shot isn’t known, another vaccine may be substituted, health officials said.

 

 

The New York Times seems to be popping up a lot recently with Covid scare stories that turn out to be nonsense.  This seems to be another:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-55519042

 

[fygjam]

40 minutes ago, KWA said:

 

The New York Times seems to be popping up a lot recently with Covid scare stories that turn out to be nonsense.  This seems to be another:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-55519042

 

Except the government's (Public Health England) own guidelines imply that it is ok to mix and match in certain circumstances.

From

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/948757/Greenbook_chapter_14a_v4.pdf

If an interval longer than the recommended interval is left between doses, the second dose
should still be given (preferably using the same vaccine as was given for the first dose if
possible). The course does not need to be restarted.

To me, preferably means desirable but NOT mandatory.

and

Previous incomplete vaccination

If the course is interrupted or delayed, it should be resumed using the same vaccine but
the first dose should not be repeated. There is no evidence on the interchangeability of the
COVID-19 vaccines although studies are underway. Therefore, every effort should be made
to determine which vaccine the individual received and to complete with the same vaccine.
For individuals who started the schedule and who attend for vaccination at a site where
the same vaccine is not available, or if the first product received is unknown, it is
reasonable to offer one dose of the locally available product to complete the schedule. This
option is preferred if the individual is likely to be at immediate high risk or is considered
unlikely to attend again. In these circumstances, as both the vaccines are based on the
spike protein, it is likely the second dose will help to boost the response to the first dose.
For this reason, until additional information becomes available, further doses would not
then be required.

Again implies that while using the same vaccine for the second dose is desirable it's not mandatory.

While the NYT article is a bit of a beat up, it's not factually incorrect.

 

[Jambo]

23 hours ago, Washedup said:

I was hopeful of a trip to Thailand this year..think it might be 2022 the way things are shaping up..oh well Scottish highlands it is 

Your possible trip and my daughters trip over (flights already changed three times) in 2021 are only partially dependant upon the UK completing a significant vaccination program. Maybe the biggest stumbling block will be that Thailand are not going to open up to unrestricted mass tourism until they have completed a similar significant vaccination program on the Thai population.

I read somewhere that Thailand has an advance order enough for 2 million vaccinations maybe arriving end of February? March? June?

[KWA]

12 minutes ago, fygjam said:

While the NYT article is a bit of a beat up, it's not factually incorrect.

It's a scare story written for whatever reason to imply the UK program is flawed.  The response from the BMA and the language used in the "vaccination playbook" indicate mixing the vaccines would be a last gasp step, and without evidence to the contrary their professional judgement is it'll be safe.

Do we believe the doctors or the journalists?

[galenkia]

39 minutes ago, KWA said:

 

Do we believe the doctors or the journalists?

Neither, they have both been scare mongering all the way through. 

Still waiting for Chris Whittys 4000 deaths a day he predicted by December. Ain't even hit a quarter of that and death rates go up in winter anyway. Testing positive just gives them more ammunition to use to restrict us for longer. 

[Bazle]

1 hour ago, galenkia said:

Testing positive just gives them more ammunition to use to restrict us for longer. 

What do you believe is their motivation for wanting to restrict us?

[coxyhog]

3 hours ago, galenkia said:

Neither, they have both been scare mongering all the way through. 

Still waiting for Chris Whittys 4000 deaths a day he predicted by December. Ain't even hit a quarter of that and death rates go up in winter anyway. Testing positive just gives them more ammunition to use to restrict us for longer. 

I think he justified it by saying it was a worst case scenario.

[coxyhog]

14 hours ago, Stillearly said:

Israel leading the way , 12% of population already had first jab 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-55514243

With only 8.6m people I'm not surprised.

[galenkia]

1 hour ago, Bazle said:

What do you believe is their motivation for wanting to restrict us?

Because they have made a complete balls up with their handling of the virus, so they are resorting to keeping everyone at home and hoping it will go away by itself. 

From today's Sunday Times 

'In May ministers said up to 30m doses of the Oxford vaccine would be ready by September. By November this had changed to 4m by the end of the year. When the vaccine is finally rolled out tomorrow there will be 530,000 doses ready'. 

Fucking lie after lie and people still keep dreaming of it being our saviour. 

[Stillearly]

1 hour ago, coxyhog said:

With only 8.6m people I'm not surprised.

Why ? If they have a smaller population then then also have less people to give out the jabs ... in actual numbers rather than a % they are still outperforming the U.K. and others 

[coxyhog]

6 minutes ago, Stillearly said:

Why ? If they have a smaller population then then also have less people to give out the jabs ... in actual numbers rather than a % they are still outperforming the U.K. and others 

Are you serious? I think 66 odd million is always going to be a lot harder & take a lot longer than 8.6 million.Think logistics just for a start.

[fygjam]

7 hours ago, KWA said:

It's a scare story written for whatever reason to imply the UK program is flawed.  The response from the BMA and the language used in the "vaccination playbook" indicate mixing the vaccines would be a last gasp step, and without evidence to the contrary their professional judgement is it'll be safe.

Do we believe the doctors or the journalists?

What is there not to believe. The story said that British guidelines permitted the use of vaccines from different manufacturers. That is true. The story also said that the US CDC guidelines did not permit the use of vaccines from different manufacturers. That is also true.

The efficacy of each vaccine was based on recipients receiving a prime and boost dose of the same vaccine not some mix and match cocktail. Where is the clinical trial data for mix and match?

Evidence based medicine requires you run the trial, analyse the data and make conclusions. Not some WAG that it will work.

I'm pretty sure nobody will drop dead if they receive the cocktail, on the other hand I'd be dubious about the level of immunity provided until shown by a clinical trial. From what I understand, the Pfizer and Oxford vaccines may target different parts of the spike protein.

Oh, the journalist is also a doctor, a real one. She holds a Ph.D. in microbiology and immunobiology so I think she's qualified.

PS. WAG - wild arse guess.

 

 

[KWA]

12 hours ago, fygjam said:

What is there not to believe.

The inference from the reporter that the British choice is wrong.  We can all read that the UK experts recommend use of one vaccine type, but in their expert opinion, and in exceptional circumstances, the second dose may be  replaced with another vaccine type.  The  NYT appears to have a down on the UK approach in general, for reasons unknown to me and should be taken with a pinch of salt.

Of course results can't be known at this time without trials, but if it's not going to kill you and may even improve your chances then there's no good reason to deny the mixed second dose.  UK glass half full approach.  NYT glass half empty.  Or is there more to it?

[KWA]

More on the New York Times hit pieces.  It's actually been written about by other publications that the NYT has an anti  British agenda, so I'm not imagining things, and it's not just about Covid vaccines. 

https://unherd.com/2020/01/what-has-the-new-york-times-got-against-britain/

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/what-s-the-new-york-times-s-problem-with-britain-

I'm sure there'll be bias from both sides but at least we now know where to put their "news" on the scale of accuracy and obectivity.

[Stillearly]

From Peston 

"PM will be directly addressing the nation. It won’t be a press conference. Tier 4 restrictions will be imposed everywhere. Schools closed. No more team games in parks. But outdoor exercise will still be allowed."

[Painter]

9 minutes ago, Stillearly said:

From Peston 

"PM will be directly addressing the nation. It won’t be a press conference. Tier 4 restrictions will be imposed everywhere. Schools closed. No more team games in parks. But outdoor exercise will still be allowed."

8pm tonight.

[Starshine]

[KhunDon]

4 hours ago, Stillearly said:

From Peston 

"PM will be directly addressing the nation. It won’t be a press conference. Tier 4 restrictions will be imposed everywhere. Schools closed. No more team games in parks. But outdoor exercise will still be allowed."

I thought it was going to be Tier 5. 

My kid went back to school today, but it looks like I’m going to be Officer in Charge of schooling again for at least a month or more. 
The numbers seem to have rocketed and are now hitting more and more younger people than before, maybe due to the new variation of Covid 19. 
Either way, I’m easy with it for a few weeks, but for others with kids who have to work, it’s going to be a real pain.

Edit  

Just listened to Boris and he’s saying “Alert level 5” I assume it the same as tier 5. 😟

Edited January 4, 2021 by KhunDon

[Nightcrawler]

30 minutes ago, KhunDon said:

I thought it was going to be Tier 5. 

My kid went back to school today, but it looks like I’m going to be Officer in Charge of schooling again for at least a month or more. 
The numbers seem to have rocketed and are now hitting more and more younger people than before, maybe due to the new variation of Covid 19. 
Either way, I’m easy with it for a few weeks, but for others with kids who have to work, it’s going to be a real pain.

Edit  

Just listened to Boris and he’s saying “Alert level 5” I assume it the same as tier 5. 😟

That's it then. I am moving my sofa into the basement and wear a world war 2 gas mask. F*ck it

Just been to Tescos and loaded up the trolley with 3 dozen tins of SPAM 

[Nightcrawler]

[Nightcrawler]

[Stillearly]

So three million kids went back to school today for one day ...  Boris on Sunday TV saying how safe the schools were .....    only positive is they may have learnt by two of their previous mistakes - school meals and this years exams ... 

[Horizondave]

I was advised by the school head on 18 December that the Welsh Government had decided that my daughter would not go back to school until 06 Jan at earliest (should be today 04 Jan).

I was then advised last week by another school letter that this had been moved back till 11 January; today we had a school message to advise that the first day she will now attend school would be 18th Jan, this message was received about 5 minutes after the education secretary advised that date in the Senedd Cymru (Welsh Parliament). Pretty good information coming through to me so as not to inconvenience us more than necessary.

I will be back to assisting Kataleya with her home schooling from Wednesday 06 Jan.

[lazarus]

1 hour ago, Horizondave said:

I was advised by the school head on 18 December that the Welsh Government had decided that my daughter would not go back to school until 06 Jan at earliest (should be today 04 Jan).

I was then advised last week by another school letter that this had been moved back till 11 January; today we had a school message to advise that the first day she will now attend school would be 18th Jan, this message was received about 5 minutes after the education secretary advised that date in the Senedd Cymru (Welsh Parliament). Pretty good information coming through to me so as not to inconvenience us more than necessary.

I will be back to assisting Kataleya with her home schooling from Wednesday 06 Jan.

You're lucky.

They're saying school in person might begin again September 2021 where I live in California, USA.

My 8-yo has been attending online since last March. She hates it.