COVID 19 GLOBAL

[fygjam]

8 minutes ago, roobob said:

So you have not got the figures of the number of people who have had the virus and recovered from it??

Maybe you do not like that truth.

Stay well.

cheers

Does "recovered from it" include those suffering from "long Covid"?

According to Office for National Statistics estimates, 1.1 million people in the UK were reporting
long Covid symptoms in the four weeks to 6 March 2021. These were defined as symptoms that
had lasted more than four weeks from initial infection, though for more than two thirds of these
people the symptoms had lasted more than 12 weeks. A fifth said their symptoms limited their
daily activities a lot.

A study led by the University of Leicester of just over 1,000 people who had needed treatment in
hospital for Covid found that the majority (seven in 10) had not fully recovered five months after
they were discharged. The report authors said that one in five of those in the study could be
considered to have a new disability.

Of those who were working before they had Covid-19, 17.8 per cent were no longer working and
a further 19.3 per cent had experienced a health-related change to their work.

https://www.bhf.org.uk/informationsupport/heart-matters-magazine/news/coronavirus-and-your-health/long-covid

1.1 million is about 25% of cases (in the UK), a figure supported by other studies. I guess They'd like to get on with their lives also.

 

[lazarus]

post deleted

Edited April 20, 2021 by lazarus

[roobob]

58 minutes ago, Nightcrawler said:

You can only lead a life based on whatever restrictions apply wherever one may be. Things aren't too bad in UK right now. Sure, I would like to drink inside a pub, but that won't happen for a few weeks (according to Govt Road map). Would like to travel abroad, but again, that is not possible for the moment. Would like to eat out in a restaurant too but same rules apply. 

But that said, things are not so bad. I can go out whenever I please, meat up with friends and family, go shopping, drink in a pub beer garden and get health care etc

We are hoping in UK to be back to some normality by June, with perhaps still some travel exclusions. But its not like that in every country, depending on infection rates. 

Things are getting better with vaccine roll outs and testing etc and don't forget that Pharma are running full speed to develop a safe and effective treatment for those who exhibit extreme covid symptoms, which we could see maybe by next year. 

None of us need to be hermits as long as we are sensible and aware of the dangers to ourselves and others, until hopefully, the bogeyman is under control and most of us are safe

Sure, many people who have caught the virus have either been asymptomatic or recovered in a few weeks, but the issue is, that those very people may have passed on the virus to others who may have been less fortunate. There is no Win/Win situation. 

Agree we can only lead a life based on the restrictions that have been put in place by authorities.... but that does not mean we have to sit in the corner and let life pass us by. Why do people keep going with the negative...why not highlight the many people who have recovered from the virus which also highlights the magnificent job/effort  the medical people from all countries have done.

Yes vaccines are being rolled out... I will be in line to to get one.... but the different information coming from the scientists and medical people which changes daily...well I can see why some are now wary of taking it.

Great to see the UK is near back on track as they have been a leader in the vaccine rollout ..closely followed by the US.... but by now with all the "experts" in the field who have been working on this from day 1...  so it will be interesting if somethings happens again...especially with the vaccine rolling out.... if   they will look at other alternatives instead of uttering the one word when a case arises...and that is...lockdown.

cheers 

 

[roobob]

1 hour ago, lazarus said:

I live my life fully everyday. Just not by ignoring reality.

Must be tough for you. Stay healthy.

I am ok.... I do not ignore reality.

So I take it you do not have the figures or are just conveniently ignoring them because it does not suit your age agenda. 

Have a nice day.

cheers

[lazarus]

post deleted

Edited April 20, 2021 by lazarus

[roobob]

1 minute ago, lazarus said:

You want numbers you provide them. Easy.

I'll be fully vaccinated soon, wait my two week for full vaccination effect, and go on with my life. But I will still follow safety guidelines to protect my family and myself. That does not mean staying home, or having less than a full life, while considering current infection conditions (pandemic wise) in my community.

If the news today -- worsening Covid infections and deaths -- doesn't give you pause then that's your prerogative. It all depends on what you feel is prudent where you live. 

Stay well.

Good news that you will be vaccinated ..... good to see you have finally added a positive post to the topic.

Your first sentence above sums you up well on this.... you have a very narrow view on the whole situation and do not like to see the whole picture ...just the negative nanny view.

Keep well and remember... continual negative views is not good for your health...especially your mental health.

cheers

[lazarus]

post deleted

 

Edited April 20, 2021 by lazarus

[roobob]

31 minutes ago, lazarus said:

As I previously wrote...

"...don't preach to others while being naïve about potential dangers."

Just can't help yourself. That's scary.

 

555... finally...an attempt at some humour....555...... I will leave it there...555.

cheers 

Edited April 20, 2021 by roobob

[lazarus]

post deleted

Edited April 20, 2021 by lazarus

[Mr. Smooth]

2 hours ago, roobob said:

Good news that you will be vaccinated ..... good to see you have finally added a positive post to the topic.

Your first sentence above sums you up well on this.... you have a very narrow view on the whole situation and do not like to see the whole picture ...just the negative nanny view.

Keep well and remember... continual negative views is not good for your health...especially your mental health.

cheers

This right here!

Forget it roobob, the guy you are going back and forth with always needs the last word.....ALWAYS! If under 65, the survival rate of this virus is around 99%. If over 65, it's been over 94%, and that was including those who already had been diagnosed with other ailments, including being obese, asthmatics, etc. Keep the most vulnerable protected, that means the elderly and those with other severe health concerns that are most susceptible. For everyone else, sure, mask up indoors if required and keep your distance, but otherwise, get on with life.

Any link posted from CNN regarding the virus, is to be considered dubious and with the utmost of suspicion. As our fellow bm has proven repeatedly, and that you have correctly pointed out, there is always a doom and gloom narrative out of him as he parrots the CNN hysteria.

[lazarus]

post deleted

 

Edited April 20, 2021 by lazarus

[bob lt]

Seems like this thread is losing any value

[Sherlock]

17 minutes ago, bob lt said:

Seems like this thread is losing any value

Its quickly turning into a kindergarten class!

[lazarus]

US State Department to list 80% of countries as 'Do Not Travel' as it updates advisory system to align with CDC

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/04/19/politics/state-department-travel-advisories/index.html

[Zeb]

14 hours ago, roobob said:

NZ along with Australia have had some of the hardest lockdowns...... the above person was vaccinated....

What the above proves is that other alternatives have to be looked at other than just a lockdowns and as can be seen   even with the vaccines.... this virus is here to stay.

The only way out of this mess is to get on with life....learn to live with the virus...... keep running the vaccines out and get back to some semblance of normal life because it has been proven to date that what has been put in place since day one has not worked.

Absolute nonsense ! Nothing is 'proven. The complete opposite in fact.

You provide no fact to support your assertion.

Isolated instances of the virus do not prove the approach being taken does not work. Rates of infection and deaths per 1 million of population in Australia & NZ are very low when compared to the UK & US.

People in Australia & NZ have been living close to normal lives for months and many businesses are doing well - thats what 'learning to live with the virus' is really about.

The vast bulk of so called 'new' cases of the virus in Australia & NZ are returning citizens in Government run quarantine.

Occasionally as in this instance the virus escapes from Quarantine and it is jumped on and crushed and life goes back to normal. Its believed this instance relates to one of the more transmissible forms of the virus.

This is the proof that the Australian & NZ approach works -

Deaths per 1 Million of Population

NZ                    5        Lives almost normal for months

Australia        35        Lives almost normal for months

US              1751

UK              1867

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

The approach taken in Australia saved many lives and returned life to very close to normal quickly.

Edited April 21, 2021 by Zeb

[roobob]

54 minutes ago, Zeb said:

Absolute nonsense ! Nothing is 'proven. The complete opposite in fact.

You provide no fact to support your assertion.

Isolated instances of the virus do not prove the approach being taken does not work. Rates of infection and deaths per 1 million of population in Australia & NZ are very low when compared to the UK & US.

People in Australia & NZ have been living close to normal lives for months and many businesses are doing well - thats what 'learning to live with the virus' is really about.

The vast bulk of so called 'new' cases of the virus in Australia & NZ are returning citizens in Government run quarantine.

Occasionally as in this instance the virus escapes from Quarantine and it is jumped on and crushed and life goes back to normal. Its believed this instance relates to one of the more transmissible forms of the virus.

This is the proof that the Australian & NZ approach works -

Deaths per 1 Million of Population

NZ                    5        Lives almost normal for months

Australia        35        Lives almost normal for months

US              1751

UK              1867

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

The approach taken in Australia saved many lives and returned life to very close to normal quickly.

Fact.....the NZ PM announced that the country had eradicated the virus and then admitted to doing a little "jig" to celebrate the fact. It appears she was a little premature in her "fact" statement.

Fact..... the latest case in NZ is a worker who had been vaccinated.

Fact....due to the ineptness of the Victorian Govts running of the hotel quarantine system over 800 people lost their lives....fact. 

Fact....Australia has no where returned to life as close as possible.....in fact there are thousands of citizens who are still trying to return home and have been trying for over 9 months to do so but their country...Australia.... has limited entry numbers and refusing them entry....... fact.

Fact...Aussie citizens stranded overseas but foreign tennis players and actors jump the queue while these people languish virtually stranded due to their home country refusing to let them return.....fact.

Fact...even the UN has asked Australia to facilitate and ensure the return of their stranded citizen...fact

cheers

Edited April 21, 2021 by roobob

[Zeb]

1 hour ago, roobob said:

Fact.....the NZ PM announced that the country had eradicated the virus and then admitted to doing a little "jig" to celebrate the fact. It appears she was a little premature in her "fact" statement.

Fact..... the latest case in NZ is a worker who had been vaccinated.

Fact....due to the ineptness of the Victorian Govts running of the hotel quarantine system over 800 people lost their lives....fact. 

Fact....Australia has no where returned to life as close as possible.....in fact there are thousands of citizens who are still trying to return home and have been trying for over 9 months to do so but their country...Australia.... has limited entry numbers and refusing them entry....... fact.

Fact...Aussie citizens stranded overseas but foreign tennis players and actors jump the queue while these people languish virtually stranded due to their home country refusing to let them return.....fact.

Fact...even the UN has asked Australia to facilitate and ensure the return of their stranded citizen...fact

cheers

Dragging the goalposts around to where you want them doesn't change the facts that the Australian & NZ approach to the virus has worked and saved many lives.

Most media reports have referred to "close to elimination". Maybe the NZ PM did say something else - but the NZ approach still had very low death rates per 1 million of population and saved many lives - Fact.

Stranded citizens overseas are not part of the Australian approach, because they are not in Australia. If you are in this this situation then take your own advice and 'learn to live with it'. In any case if you reckon the Australian approach hasn't worked - why would you want to return ? Why whine & bellyache ?

It doesn't change that the Australian & NZ approach worked. Fact.

The deaths in Victoria were tragic, but didn't occur in quarantine, they happened in Aged Care Homes and are included in the comparison below - so please try to quote facts.

Your assertion that Australian & NZ approach to the virus hasn't worked remain wrong, unproven - thats a fact. Life is very close to back to normal here, even more so in NZ. Fact.

Isolated instances of vaccinated worker catching the virus doesn't make the overall approach 'not workable' - you simply deal with it and crush it. The many people who do not catch it are the proof that the approach works. Fact. 

These are the facts that proven what I'm saying - upon which you are silent.

Deaths per 1 Million of Population

NZ                    5        Lives almost normal for months

Australia        35        Lives almost normal for months

US              1751

UK              1867

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

 

Edited April 21, 2021 by Zeb

[roobob]

35 minutes ago, Zeb said:

Dragging the goalposts around to where you want them doesn't change the facts that the Australian & NZ approach to the virus has worked and saved many lives.

Most media reports have referred to "close to elimination". Maybe the NZ PM did say something else - but the NZ approach still had very low death rates per 1 million of population and saved many lives - Fact.

Raising stranded citizens overseas doesn't change that, all it does is try to change the subject. Fact.

The deaths in Victoria were tragic, but didn't occur in quarantine, they happened in Aged Care Homes and are included in the comparison below - so please try to quote facts.

Your assertion that Australian & NZ approach to the virus hasn't worked remain wrong, unproven - thats a fact. Life is very close to back to normal here, even more so in NZ. Fact.

Isolated instances of vaccinated worker catching the virus doesn't make the overall approach 'not workable' - you simply deal with it and crush it. Fact.

These are the facts that proven what I'm saying - upon which you are silent.

Deaths per 1 Million of Population

NZ                    5        Lives almost normal for months

Australia        35        Lives almost normal for months

US              1751

UK              1867

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

 

The NZ PM stated to the world that NZ had eradicated the virus. Sugar coat ir...put what ever spin on it you want... her words were that the virus had been eradicated.

To you it may not mean anything that Aussies citizens have been stranded overseas for near up to nine months and denied entry back into their country and have been deprived of their right to enter their own country. It seems in this instance that you are of the "I am alright mate" attitude and could not care less about others in this situation.

You are wrong.... the majority deaths in Victoria occurred due to the botched hotel quarantine system put in place by the Victoria Govt and there has already been an enquiry into it and family/relatives of the victims are pushing hard for a Royal Commission into said event. Yes some deaths occurred in Age Care Homes but over 800 deaths were a result of the hotel quarantine system.   Even though the Victorian Govt hopes it will go away...there is more to come and hopefully they also include the botch ups in the Aged Care System Australia wide.

I would say that a botched up quarantine system put in place by the Vic Govt where over 800 people sadly passed away is proof that the approach taken was indeed wrong but maybe you put the unnecessary deaths of these people down as collateral damage.

cheers

  

Edited April 21, 2021 by roobob

[fygjam]

1 hour ago, roobob said:

Fact....Australia has no where returned to life as close as possible.....in fact there are thousands of citizens who are still trying to return home and have been trying for over 9 months to do so but their country...Australia.... has limited entry numbers and refusing them entry....... fact.

Fact...Aussie citizens stranded overseas but foreign tennis players and actors jump the queue while these people languish virtually stranded due to their home country refusing to let them return.....fact.

True Fact... Tennis players did NOT jump the queue. Players and their entourages were brought out under private arrangements by Tennis Australia who hired charter flights and additional quarantine hotels for those involved. Perhaps Free and Open Australia should do the same if they are so concerned about bringing potentially diseased Australians of the streets of Mumbai or Brixton back to Australia. Said tennis players by and large were in quarantine bubbles prior to departing for Australia. If Free and Open Australia were to do this the UNHRC could direct their attention to parts of the world where REAL human rights violations are taking place like Myanmar or the treatment of the Uyghurs in China...true fact.

True Fact...For most of the past year my life has been pretty much as it was before the pandemic with the exception of no international travel but I wasn't planning any anyway. Only one case of local transmission in the last year, brought in by some returning diseased traveler. 353 days since the last death from Covid. 375 days since the last case of unknown origin. All brought about by limiting potential sources of infection and the prudent us of lockdowns, only one 2 week period in the past year...true fact.

 

[Zeb]

1 hour ago, roobob said:

1) The NZ PM stated to the world that NZ had eradicated the virus. Sugar coat ir...put what ever spin on it you want... her words were that the virus had been eradicated.

2) To you it may not mean anything that Aussies citizens have been stranded overseas for near up to nine months and denied entry back into their country and have been deprived of their right to enter their own country. It seems in this instance that you are of the "I am alright mate" attitude and could not care less about others in this situation.

3) You are wrong.... the majority deaths in Victoria occurred due to the botched hotel quarantine system put in place by the Victoria Govt and there has already been an enquiry into it and family/relatives of the victims are pushing hard for a Royal Commission into said event. Yes some deaths occurred in Age Care Homes but over 800 deaths were a result of the hotel quarantine system.   Even though the Victorian Govt hopes it will go away...there is more to come and hopefully they also include the botch ups in the Aged Care System Australia wide.

I would say that a botched up quarantine system put in place by the Vic Govt where over 800 people sadly passed away is proof that the approach taken was indeed wrong but maybe you put the unnecessary deaths of these people down as collateral damage.

cheers

  

Still you TRY to change the subject that the Australian & NZ approach to the virus didn't work.

This proves that statement wrong - as much as you try to run away from it. Fact

Deaths per 1 Million of Population

NZ                    5        Lives almost normal for months

Australia        35        Lives almost normal for months

US              1751

UK              1867

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Turning to the other points you raise - I've numbered the points in your reply -

1) What the NZ PM said is irrelevant. The NZ approach was VASTLY better then comparable countries, the data proves it and thats what matters. It saved lives. Fact.

2) You tell people to 'learn to live with the virus' but Squark & Whine when told to do the same. Please.

3) Covid Deaths in Victorian Aged Care were 668.

     Total Victorian Covid deaths are 820 to date.

     Thats 81.4% Aged Care Covid Deaths -

Scource -

https://www.health.gov.au/resources/covid-19-cases-in-aged-care-services-residential-care

Your claim is again. Wrong.

 

 

Edited April 21, 2021 by Zeb

[roobob]

1 hour ago, Zeb said:

Still you TRY to change the subject that the Australian & NZ approach to the virus didn't work.

This proves that statement wrong - as much as you try to run away from it. Fact

Deaths per 1 Million of Population

NZ                    5        Lives almost normal for months

Australia        35        Lives almost normal for months

US              1751

UK              1867

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Turning to the other points you raise - I've numbered the points in your reply -

1) What the NZ PM said is irrelevant. The NZ approach was VASTLY better then comparable countries, the data proves it and thats what matters. It saved lives. Fact.

2) You tell people to 'learn to live with the virus' but Squark & Whine when told to do the same. Please.

3) Covid Deaths in Victorian Aged Care were 668.

     Total Victorian Covid deaths are 820 to date.

     Thats 81.4% Aged Care Covid Deaths -

Scource -

https://www.health.gov.au/resources/covid-19-cases-in-aged-care-services-residential-care

Your claim is again. Wrong.

 

 

It seems we view things differently. 

I look at real situations and what occurs....you on the other hand look at statistics/figures and go religiously with them as if that is the only way to go..... it seems you are happy to be spoon fed by authorities and will swallow anything that is dished up to you.

If you think that the hotel quarantine fiasco in Victoria did not lead/cause the deaths of people... then you are more blinkered in your little bubble than I thought you were.

People are stranded overseas due the virus and what is put in place by authorities in refusing them access to their own country.... to say that it is not relevant in how the situation is being handled just shows how hoodwinked you have been by just relying on your "figures".

In this case...I am happy to agree to disagree with you..as it seems you cannot look at the overall situation with an open mind. 

cheers

[Jambo]

4 hours ago, Zeb said:

The vast bulk of so called 'new' cases of the virus in Australia & NZ are returning citizens in Government run quarantine.

Occasionally as in this instance the virus escapes from Quarantine and it is jumped on and crushed and life goes back to normal. Its believed this instance relates to one of the more transmissible forms of the virus.

This is the proof that the Australian & NZ approach works -

 

Until it doesn't work.

Eventually, Australia is going to have to reopen its borders to incoming travellers without quarantine requirements and then Covid or one of its mutations is going to take off just like it is currently taking off in Thailand.

The genie is out of the bottle and no amount of vaccination efforts is going to eradicate it completely just as the world has been unable to eradicate influenza. Covid is here to stay and we have to accept that fact and get on with life and accept  that a very small percentage of the worlds overall population is going to die earlier than they individually may have expected.

To be completely selfish I hope I am not one of them.

[Zeb]

1 hour ago, roobob said:

It seems we view things differently. 

I look at real situations and what occurs....you on the other hand look at statistics/figures and go religiously with them as if that is the only way to go..... it seems you are happy to be spoon fed by authorities and will swallow anything that is dished up to you.

If you think that the hotel quarantine fiasco in Victoria did not lead/cause the deaths of people... then you are more blinkered in your little bubble than I thought you were.

People are stranded overseas due the virus and what is put in place by authorities in refusing them access to their own country.... to say that it is not relevant in how the situation is being handled just shows how hoodwinked you have been by just relying on your "figures".

In this case...I am happy to agree to disagree with you..as it seems you cannot look at the overall situation with an open mind. 

Indeed we do look at things differently - the main difference is me asking for proof to support positions/ argument & debate - and me giving proof to support what I say.

You fail to do so. You reject the health authorities data on Aged Death in Homes in Victoria without any basis for doing so.

Many Australians stranded overseas have returned with more returning ever week. Others just Whine & bellyache about it.

You try to present an opinion as fact, without proof or data.

Thats delusion. 

[Zeb]

1 hour ago, Jambo said:

Until it doesn't work.

Eventually, Australia is going to have to reopen its borders to incoming travellers without quarantine requirements and then Covid or one of its mutations is going to take off just like it is currently taking off in Thailand.

The genie is out of the bottle and no amount of vaccination efforts is going to eradicate it completely just as the world has been unable to eradicate influenza. Covid is here to stay and we have to accept that fact and get on with life and accept  that a very small percentage of the worlds overall population is going to die earlier than they individually may have expected.

To be completely selfish I hope I am not one of them.

The context for the last several replies of this thread has been what HAS been working in Australia & NZ.

A BM challenged if our response was working without any proof. Proof showed he was ill informed on the matter and talking bollocks. Utter bollocks.

As the situation changes the response will need to change.

Having adequate Health resources to throw at and crush future outbreaks is important and having things basically under control to start with helps you to do so.

Vaccines are going to adapt and be modified also as the situation evolves.

I haven't seen authorities here say borders won't reopen, but the conditions under which they do will be variable to fit circumstances. Sadly we are a way off that atm - as much as I and many others would like to travel.

Edited April 21, 2021 by Zeb

[roobob]

30 minutes ago, Zeb said:

The context for the last several replies of this thread has been what HAS been working in Australia & NZ.

A BM challenged our response was working without any proof. Proof showed he was ill informed on the matter and talking bollocks. Utter bollocks.

As the situation changes the response will need to change.

Having adequate Health resources to throw at and crush future outbreaks is important and having things basically under control to start with helps you to do so.

Vaccines are going to adapt and be modified also as the situation evolves.

I haven't seen authorities here say borders won't reopen, but the conditions under which they do will be variable to fit circumstances. Sadly we are a way off that atm - as much as I and many others would like to travel.

Maybe you should keep up with what you are being spoon feed....... and spend some time out of your time warp bubble to see what is actually going on in the real world...... 555.

cheers

Health Minister Greg Hunt has warned national borders may not reopen even with 100% vaccination — and experts say the economic fallout could be significant (msn.com)

Edited April 21, 2021 by roobob