The Derek Chauvin George Floyd Murder Trial.

[galenkia]

53 minutes ago, Gary said:

Police officers are certainly not prefect, BUT, being polite and cooperating with them gives them no reason to be heavy handed. 

Wanna bet?. 

I take it you have never been arrested. 

[Gary]

3 hours ago, galenkia said:

Wanna bet?. 

I take it you have never been arrested. 

I was arrested and jailed once. Myself and a friend of mine were visiting a female friend. Her boyfriend came and we were not too polite telling him to leave. He came back with four of his friends, My friend got the worst of it. We were arrested and accused of assault. We didn't figure anything would come of it because those five guys were also charged with assault. The cops were polite and so were we. The cops found the whole thing amusing and we were released the next day.

[Evil Penevil]

11 hours ago, fygjam said:

The last Western Australian police officer murdered while on duty was in 1979 yet we still have our share of heavy handed arrogant officers.

The situation is quite different in the U.S.  In 2019,  a total of 48 officers were killed by felonious acts.

"The 48 felonious deaths occurred in 19 states and in Puerto Rico. The number of officers killed as a result of criminal acts in 2019 was 8 less than the 56 officers who were feloniously killed in 2018. The 5- and 10-year comparisons show an increase of 7 felonious deaths compared with the 2015 figure (41 officers) and a decrease of 7 deaths compared with 2010 data (55 officers)."

The figures come from FBI Releases 2019 Statistics on Law Enforcement Officers Killed in the Line of Duty.

It also states:

"Offenders used firearms to kill 44 of the 48 victim officers. Four officers were killed with vehicles used as weapons."

and:

"Suspects. Law enforcement agencies identified 49 alleged assailants in connection with the felonious line-of-duty deaths.

• 36 of the assailants had prior criminal arrests.
• 12 of the offenders were under judicial supervision* at the times of the felonious incidents."

That's why U.S. cops are so concerned with guys like George Floyd, as 75% of cop killers have criminal records.

According to a separate release by the FBI regarding felonious deaths and non-fatal assaults on officers in 2019:

"28 of the alleged offenders were White, 15 were Black/African American, and 1 was Native Hawaiian/Other Pacific Islander. Race was not reported for 5 of the alleged offenders."

That means between 30% and 40% of the cop killers were Black.

Furthermore:

"Of the 56,034 officers who were assaulted, 17,188 (30.7 percent) sustained injuries."

Unarmed assailants who used their hands, fists or feet accounted for 79.3% of the assaults.

*In this instance, "judicial supervision" mostly likely refers to individuals on parole or probation, but could include incarcerated persons or juvenile offenders.

Evil

Edited April 11, 2021 by Evil Penevil

[Kathmandu]

On 4/11/2021 at 10:56 AM, Evil Penevil said:

The situation is quite different in the U.S.  In 2019,  a total of 48 officers were killed by felonious acts.

"The 48 felonious deaths occurred in 19 states and in Puerto Rico. The number of officers killed as a result of criminal acts in 2019 was 8 less than the 56 officers who were feloniously killed in 2018. The 5- and 10-year comparisons show an increase of 7 felonious deaths compared with the 2015 figure (41 officers) and a decrease of 7 deaths compared with 2010 data (55 officers)."

The figures come from FBI Releases 2019 Statistics on Law Enforcement Officers Killed in the Line of Duty.

It also states:

"Offenders used firearms to kill 44 of the 48 victim officers. Four officers were killed with vehicles used as weapons."

and:

"Suspects. Law enforcement agencies identified 49 alleged assailants in connection with the felonious line-of-duty deaths.

• 36 of the assailants had prior criminal arrests.
• 12 of the offenders were under judicial supervision* at the times of the felonious incidents."

That's why U.S. cops are so concerned with guys like George Floyd, as 75% of cop killers have criminal records.

According to a separate release by the FBI regarding felonious deaths and non-fatal assaults on officers in 2019:

"28 of the alleged offenders were White, 15 were Black/African American, and 1 was Native Hawaiian/Other Pacific Islander. Race was not reported for 5 of the alleged offenders."

That means between 30% and 40% of the cop killers were Black.

Furthermore:

"Of the 56,034 officers who were assaulted, 17,188 (30.7 percent) sustained injuries."

Unarmed assailants who used their hands, fists or feet accounted for 79.3% of the assaults.

*In this instance, "judicial supervision" mostly likely refers to individuals on parole or probation, but could include incarcerated persons or juvenile offenders.

Evil

Would it kill you to offer an opinion regarding the thread title as opposed to beating around the bush?

[Evil Penevil]

15 hours ago, Kathmandu said:

Would it kill you to offer an opinion regarding the thread title as opposed to beating around the bush?

Get your knee off my neck!  I can't breathe in this thread!

I have given my opinion:

On 4/6/2021 at 4:42 AM, Evil Penevil said:

It's really important to go to the original sources whenever possible as there is so much false information on the Net about the George Floyd case.

The crucial point that may come out at trial is whether Chauvin and the other officers were aware of George Floyd's record of criminality and drug abuse in Minnesota and Texas when they arrested him in 2020.  That could explain some of Chauvin's aggressiveness.  It doesn't justify kneeling on George Floyd's neck after he was in handcuffs, but it could be a mitigating factor for the jury.

George Floyd has been portrayed by BLM's as an "innocent victim" of police brutality and racism. That's certainly not the case.  The corner where the store was located was well known as a place to buy drugs.  The store itself was noted for buying and selling stolen cell phones and computers.  If Floyd hadn't gone to that store, if he hadn't tried to buy cigarettes with a counterfeit bill and if he had obeyed the cops' orders to sit in the squad car, he would probably be alive today.

George Floyd is the wrong guy to use as a poster boy for BLM.

Whenever possible, I prefer to let the facts speak for themselves.

Evil

[Golfingboy]

Been another bad week for cops and the Black community. A female cop in Minnesota shot a young man who scuffled with police at a traffic stop, “thinking it was her Taser”. 
And an Army medic was pepper sprayed by a Virginia cop, who’s now already been fired. 
 

It’s obvious in the above cases cops are still abusing their powers every day, this sense of entitlement and being above the law because of the badge.......is not disappearing anytime soon. 
 

But as @Gary said above, even with the worst cop, cooperating goes a long way. Cops are awful at de-escalation, yes, but the approach many Black men take of showing pride and asking “WHY should I comply”  multiple times, with guns pointed at them.....is that really smart? Get out of the vehicle, show you’re not a threat, and then protest your case. The medic was right, guns being drawn over his tags not being visible, and having served his country so long.....I get it, you feel violated. But refusing to get out of your car many times, doesn’t help and adds fuel to the 🔥 

[Mr. Smooth]

20 minutes ago, Golfingboy said:

Been another bad week for cops and the Black community. A female cop in Minnesota shot a young man who scuffled with police at a traffic stop, “thinking it was her Taser”. 
And an Army medic was pepper sprayed by a Virginia cop, who’s now already been fired. 
 

It’s obvious in the above cases cops are still abusing their powers every day, this sense of entitlement and being above the law because of the badge.......is not disappearing anytime soon. 
 

But as @Gary said above, even with the worst cop, cooperating goes a long way. Cops are awful at de-escalation, yes, but the approach many Black men take of showing pride and asking “WHY should I comply”  multiple times, with guns pointed at them.....is that really smart? Get out of the vehicle, show you’re not a threat, and then protest your case. The medic was right, guns being drawn over his tags not being visible, and having served his country so long.....I get it, you feel violated. But refusing to get out of your car many times, doesn’t help and adds fuel to the 🔥 

In both cases the people being stopped were in the wrong. The kid because he made a break for it to get back in his car and the Army medic for questioning why he was being stopped and not adhering to the officer commands.

In both encounters, had the people cooperated with the police, the kid would have been taken into custody for priors, while the medic would have been let go with a simple warning. But no, in both cases, the individuals and not the cops, took a course of action that severely enhanced the tension of the situation, rather than keeping things calm by obeying what LE was telling them. 

Now, you have yet another dead young man and a Army vet who got maced for failing to comply. Hindsight is 20-20, but at the moment, in each instance, the cops nerves are on edge because they no longer can be sure of the individuals next course of action and they might only have a split second to decide their response. For the female cop, a 25 year career is over, as well as the Chief of Police, and most likely charges from the DA will be forthcoming after an investigation. With the Army medic, one or both cops have been fired and I imagine a lawsuit will be filed against the city where that took place.

Benjamin Crump should be appearing shortly before a bank of microphones to let the world know his law firm is representing the family of their dead gangbanger son, and after getting $27 mill from Minneapolis, due to the nature of this crime from Brooklyn Park, a Minneapolis suburb, I'm figuring at least 2/3rds of that amount will be negotiated as a settlement.

Is it any wonder that violent crime has skyrocketed in America and that cops are probably more relunctant than ever to put themselves out there to serve an increasingly disrespectful public.

[Kathmandu]

Not the best of days for the defense and their use of force expert, Mr. Brodd. 

Google it if you wish.

 

[Kathmandu]

9 minutes ago, Mr. Smooth said:

Benjamin Crump should be appearing shortly before a bank of microphones to let the world know his law firm is representing the family of their dead gangbanger son, and after getting $27 mill from Minneapolis, due to the nature of this crime from Brooklyn Park, a Minneapolis suburb, I'm figuring at least 2/3rds of that amount will be negotiated as a settlement.

 

The two incidents bear nothing in common. Besides you, who ever said Floyd was a "gangbanger", like you're an expert on the topic...lol

As far as BP the police chief and officer involved have already quit.

Man are you a drama queen or what? Stick with your knitting club my ill-informed amigo.  

[Mr. Smooth]

3 hours ago, Kathmandu said:

The two incidents bear nothing in common. Besides you, who ever said Floyd was a "gangbanger", like you're an expert on the topic...lol

As far as BP the police chief and officer involved have already quit.

Man are you a drama queen or what? Stick with your knitting club my ill-informed amigo.  

Are you just brain dead or what?

Read it again Einstein, the gangbanger I'm talking about is the 20 year old kid who was accidently killed by the female cop! The reason for the current riots and looting going on in Brooklyn Park. And if you reread my post, you will see where I already wrote that the cop and chief both resigned.

Do us all a favor and put down your screw top chardonnay and try to soberly comprehend correctly what another poster writes before you decide to chime in.

Leave your embarrassing contributions in the politics club.

 

[Golfingboy]

10 hours ago, Evil Penevil said:

Get your knee off my neck!  I can't breathe in this thread!

I have given my opinion:

Whenever possible, I prefer to let the facts speak for themselves.

Evil

Thanks for bringing Vicha’s case to my attention. Bloody deplorable act, just saw the footage......oh if that was a redneck kid who did it to an 84 year old Black man.....

But guess what, an elderly Asian man taking a walk suffers that deadly attack, and I never heard about it until seeing your profile. The news is definitely becoming so one-dimensional it’s sickening

[lazarus]

3 hours ago, Golfingboy said:

Thanks for bringing Vicha’s case to my attention. Bloody deplorable act, just saw the footage......oh if that was a redneck kid who did it to an 84 year old Black man.....

But guess what, an elderly Asian man taking a walk suffers that deadly attack, and I never heard about it until seeing your profile. The news is definitely becoming so one-dimensional it’s sickening

It was all over the news -- national & international -- at the time it happened. There is a well publicized "Asian Lives Matter" movement, especially here in the San Francisco Bay Area where it occurred.

I hope the "perp" in the Vicha case gets a long prison term.

[forqalso]

The army officer was told he was about to “ride the lightning,” slang for being executed.  He told the police officer that he was afraid to get out, the cop said, “you should be”. Because the cops didn’t see the paper dealer plate in his rear window.  After seeing Philando Castile killed for reaching for his wallet after being asked for his ID, why wouldn’t Lt. Nazario be afraid?  He had two cops with guns drawn, why would he bring his hand back into the car to unbuckle his seat belt or unlock his door?

Also, if the cops were in the right, why did they threaten to harm his army career made if he filed a complaint?

Edited April 14, 2021 by forqalso

[lazarus]

6 minutes ago, forqalso said:

The army officer was told he was about to “ride the lightning,” slang for being executed.  He told the police officer that he was afraid to get out, the cop said, “you should be”. Because the cops didn’t see the paper dealer plate in his rear window.  After seeing Philando Castile killed for reaching for his wallet after being asked for his ID, why wouldn’t Lt. Nazario be afraid?  He had two cops with guns drawn, why would he bring his hand back into the car to unbuckle his seat belt or unlock his door?

Also, if the cops were in the right, why did they threaten to harm his army career made if he filed a complaint?

"...from 2015 to 2020, while half the people shot and killed by police were white, African Americans were killed at a disproportionate rate because they only comprise 13 percent of the population. Specifically, black Americans are killed at more than twice the rate of whites.

But isn’t this just a function of the danger that police are actually in when arresting a Black suspect? The answer again is no. In the police killings tracked from 2013-2020 by the Mapping Police Violence project, Black suspects were 1.3x more likely to be unarmed relative to white suspects..."

We Need To Bust Some Myths About Police Killings.

https://statuskuo.substack.com/p/we-need-to-bust-some-myths-about

[forcebwithu]

I was curious as to how LEO carry their taser and gun. Found this article that answers that question.

Taser vs. gun: How do Brooklyn Center cops wear their weapons?

Brooklyn Center Police Chief Tim Gannon explained the placement during a press conference Monday, as he called Wright’s shooting death the result of an “accidental discharge.”

“For informational purposes, we train with our handguns on our dominant side and our Taser on our weak side,” Gannon told reporters at a press conference.

“If you’re right-handed, you carry your firearm on your right side and you carry your Taser on the left. This is done purposefully, and it’s trained.”
...

I question why this "is done purposefully, and it’s trained”. I believe their training also includes escalation of force, but wearing a lethal weapon on their dominant side seems counter to that training.

It's happened too many times a cop draws their gun and pulls the trigger thinking it was a taser in their hand, all because the lethal weapon is on their dominant side.

[Gary]

31 minutes ago, forcebwithu said:

I was curious as to how LEO carry their taser and gun. Found this article that answers that question.

Taser vs. gun: How do Brooklyn Center cops wear their weapons?

Brooklyn Center Police Chief Tim Gannon explained the placement during a press conference Monday, as he called Wright’s shooting death the result of an “accidental discharge.”

“For informational purposes, we train with our handguns on our dominant side and our Taser on our weak side,” Gannon told reporters at a press conference.

“If you’re right-handed, you carry your firearm on your right side and you carry your Taser on the left. This is done purposefully, and it’s trained.”
...

I question why this "is done purposefully, and it’s trained”. I believe their training also includes escalation of force, but wearing a lethal weapon on their dominant side seems counter to that training.

It's happened too many times a cop draws their gun and pulls the trigger thinking it was a taser in their hand, all because the lethal weapon is on their dominant side.

This woman was totally out of the depth of her experience. I believe she thought it was a taser, she had no idea what she was doing. We really don't know how people will react when under pressure. Unfortunately we only know when sad circumstances tell the story.

[forcebwithu]

4 minutes ago, Gary said:

This woman was totally out of the depth of her experience. I believe she thought it was a taser, she had no idea what she was doing. We really don't know how people will react when under pressure. Unfortunately we only know when sad circumstances tell the story.

No doubt she truly thought she was holding her taser when she pulled the trigger. The audio alone from the bodycam video demonstrates that.

In stressful situations muscle memory plays a big part in how you react. For that reason I think the simple change in procedure of carrying a taser on the dominant side would save lives.

[Gary]

The training and vetting is likely the answer. One major problem now is the question of who would want to be a police officer during these unsettled times? If I were a young man, no way would I want to be a police officer. This eliminates the cream of the crop candidates.

[lazarus]

52 minutes ago, Gary said:

The training and vetting is likely the answer. One major problem now is the question of who would want to be a police officer during these unsettled times? If I were a young man, no way would I want to be a police officer. This eliminates the cream of the crop candidates.

People who care about their communities. Lots of people interested in LE careers. Good pay & benefits. 

My nephew (who was in the ROTC in HS & university) just graduated CSU-SD and was commissioned a 2nd Lt.

Now at Fort Hood working as a MP doing liaison with the local civilian police.

Wants to continue on after the military in LE. His dad is working LE also.

Interestingly...his parents were refugees -- his dad is from Cambodia during the Khmer Rouge period and his mom is from Viet Nam (fled after the American War). My mom adopted his dad.

Edited April 16, 2021 by lazarus

[Gary]

The real but impossible answer is for permissive parents to teach their children responsibility and respect for the law.

[Mr. Smooth]

4 hours ago, Gary said:

The real but impossible answer is for permissive parents to teach their children responsibility and respect for the law.

The biggest underlying problem we have in America regarding our society is the number of kids growing up without a father in the household. And it is most prevalent in the inner city.

Black kids in 1960 were born to a 2 parent family around 75% of the time. Now, it's closer to 25-30%. The kids, particularly the boys, never learn respect for authority because it's seldom taught at home. A mother can only do so much, but once her son reaches 11 or 12, it's the father who becomes the more important parent when it comes time for discipline, respect, obeying the law, etc.

In virtually all (there are exceptions of course)these cases of police shootings and killings, of black men, had they simply obeyed the commands of the officer as they were told to, then they would be alive today. But they questioned authority with their behavior and actions, be it in resisting arrest, or running away when told to stop, thereby causing a pursuit where anything can, and often does, happen.

And tragically, in too many instances, a loss of life.

[lazarus]

"The biggest underlying problem we have in America regarding our society is the number of kids growing up without a father in the household. And it is most prevalent in the inner city."

...and trigger happy cops who shoot first and ask the ME later.

For example:

San Leandro police officer in Steven Taylor killing failed to de-escalate situation, report says

The San Leandro police officer who fatally shot a Black man in a Walmart a year ago violated the department’s use-of-force policy by failing to de-escalate the situation and failing to use crisis intervention techniques, according to a report by an independent investigator.

The report, produced by OIR Group, says former Officer Jason Fletcher “did not effectively deploy de-escalation tactics” when he arrived at the Walmart on April 18, 2020, responding to calls of a man with a bat in the store. Alameda County District Attorney Nancy E. O’Malley charged Fletcher with felony voluntary manslaughter in September. He has pleaded not guilty.

“Had a different approach been taken, the use of deadly force might have been avoided altogether,” the report says...

https://www.sfchronicle.com/crime/article/San-Leandro-police-officer-in-Steven-Taylor-16105331.php

Edited April 16, 2021 by lazarus

[Mr. Smooth]

16 minutes ago, lazarus said:

"The biggest underlying problem we have in America regarding our society is the number of kids growing up without a father in the household. And it is most prevalent in the inner city."

...and trigger happy cops who shoot first and ask the ME later.

For example:

San Leandro police officer in Steven Taylor killing failed to de-escalate situation, report says

The San Leandro police officer who fatally shot a Black man in a Walmart a year ago violated the department’s use-of-force policy by failing to de-escalate the situation and failing to use crisis intervention techniques, according to a report by an independent investigator.

The report, produced by OIR Group, says former Officer Jason Fletcher “did not effectively deploy de-escalation tactics” when he arrived at the Walmart on April 18, 2020, responding to calls of a man with a bat in the store. Alameda County District Attorney Nancy E. O’Malley charged Fletcher with felony voluntary manslaughter in September. He has pleaded not guilty.

“Had a different approach been taken, the use of deadly force might have been avoided altogether,” the report says...

https://www.sfchronicle.com/crime/article/San-Leandro-police-officer-in-Steven-Taylor-16105331.php

You want to equate a cop killing a guy wielding a bat in a store, a deadly weapon in effect, and acting erratic, a very real and serious threat to other customers in that store, with what I posted?

Sorry dude, nothing doing. Not even close.

[lazarus]

1 minute ago, Mr. Smooth said:

You want to equate a cop killing a guy wielding a bat in a store, a deadly weapon in effect, and acting erratic, a very real and serious threat to other customers in that store, with what I posted?

Sorry dude, nothing doing. Not even close.

You oversimplified a very complex issue to support a time worn false narrative.

No surprise there.

[Kathmandu]

On 4/16/2021 at 2:52 AM, Mr. Smooth said:

You want to equate a cop killing a guy wielding a bat in a store, a deadly weapon in effect, and acting erratic, a very real and serious threat to other customers in that store, with what I posted?

Sorry dude, nothing doing. Not even close.

 

On 4/16/2021 at 2:54 AM, lazarus said:

You oversimplified a very complex issue to support a time worn false narrative.

No surprise there.

Yup, where is Gray Ray when you need him. May he RIP.