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Medical Insurance in Thailand


AussieBob

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I disagree 100% with the current 'Expat insurance scam' mentality that pervades Government and Bureaucracy thunking (and I do mean thunking) in Thailand. 

What IMO Thailand should offer, is a basic hospital-only medical insurance plan that provides Expats with coverage in all Government hospitals (not in Privates). That the only medical insurance options available to Expats is for coverage in basically private hospitals is shortsighted.

The Thai Govt does not include the 'universal' Government coverage for all people living long-term in Thailand (more than 12 months). Certainly for tourists (one off Visas that are less than 12 months), then the private insurance for private hospitals is the correct way to go. If the Thai Govt created/approved a Govt Hospital insurance coverage option, that would mean Expats have a cost effective option, plus the private insurance is available for those that wish to take up that additional option. 

However, the legal and bureaucratic complications of making such a rational change, gets to the heart of 'the problem' for all Expats living long term in Thailand - they/we are technically all tourists.  Whether for retirement, work, business or marriage - all long term 12 month Visas and their extensions of Permission (including the Elite Visas and all the proposed new long term Visas) are tourist Visas. Thailand does not offer immigrant Visas to non-citizens - technically all people living in Thailand are either Thai Citizens or Tourists. Those Expats that take up the option of becoming a 'permanent resident' are still technically a tourist under Thai laws and regulations. Only by becoming a citizen can any Expat change their legal status. That is why so many things are so 'complicated' for Expats living in Thailand - like medical insurance - we are all tourists.

On a personal note, I plan to have a basic hospital-only accident insurance plan with a huge excess at minimal costs. While I have that in place, I will also be placing money each year into an 'insurance fund' that will build up over the years. That 'fund' will be used for the annual Visa/Permission extensions - and will be available for any medical costs not covered - and over the years that will grow and remain our money.  I calculated that having decent hospital insurance in Thailand for over 20 years (65 to 85) will cost me over 3.5 million baht - because the premiums increase significantly as each age point is reached (70, 75, 80).  Plus if I ever did make a claim, the subsequent premiums would be much higher, and there are basically no legal provisions that I could call upon if any claim is not paid, or if the insurance company decides to decline further coverage.  I used to complain about the cost of medical insurance in Aust because it was 'controlled' so that older people did not have to pay exorbitant premiums - but having seen what happens without Government controls in Thailand, I now understand why Aust has taken that approach to insurance premiums. 

Any thoughts and corrections are welcome.  I plan to take the above approach - has anyone done that, or see any flaw in that approach. 

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6 hours ago, AussieBob said:

What IMO Thailand should offer, is a basic hospital-only medical insurance plan that provides Expats with coverage in all Government hospitals (not in Privates). That the only medical insurance options available to Expats is for coverage in basically private hospitals is shortsighted.

BINGO but i'm not holding my breath lol

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9 hours ago, AussieBob said:

What IMO Thailand should offer, is a basic hospital-only medical insurance plan that provides Expats with coverage in all Government hospitals (not in Privates).

And at costs equitable with Thais.

This Government legalised double pricing in ALL hospitals for non thais. Disgusting!

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That's essentially what I've done, out of necessity.  The insurance companies won't cover me for heart or circulatory issues due to me having high blood pressure.  The only difference is I was able to fully fund the emergency account from the start.

 

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Non Immigrant visas are definitely not Tourist Visas, but that's beside the point.  When my country (UK) offers free full NHS cover to Thai tourists then I might expect it to be reciprocated, until then I'll plan accordingly.

 

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good concept but it would dis allow cover for existing conditons, as does ay insurance.  as someone who pays, a lot, for insurance here, I always whine like a bitch when I pay.  but then again my current procedure knocked them for twice the policy price in one go.  so its payback I guess

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8 hours ago, tommy dee said:

good concept but it would dis allow cover for existing conditons, as does ay insurance.  as someone who pays, a lot, for insurance here, I always whine like a bitch when I pay.  but then again my current procedure knocked them for twice the policy price in one go.  so its payback I guess

I expect it will be "payback" come renewal time Thomas.....

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On 6/19/2022 at 8:34 PM, Stillearly said:

Bloody immigrants trying to tell Thailand how to run things , to make it cheaper for them to move over 555 😉 

So you think they are listening?😁 

You know it always amazes me how xenophobic most of the Thailand people in authority are (I do understand why).  They will seek help and advice from the Chinese and Japanese about road and railway constructions etc etc.  But they would never think to ask the current 'good' Expats what they think about the issues in Thailand for good Expats and how to bring more of the good ones into the country.  They think that the Chinese have the Thai people's best interests at heart (wrong) and that all Expats who live in Thailand are just 'dirty sexpats' and only want to take advantage of Thai people (also wrong).

Maybe one day they will 'listen' - maybe. 

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On 6/19/2022 at 10:34 PM, KWA said:

Non Immigrant visas are definitely not Tourist Visas, but that's beside the point.  When my country (UK) offers free full NHS cover to Thai tourists then I might expect it to be reciprocated, until then I'll plan accordingly.

 

Sorry mate, but they are Tourist Visas - that is the point.

All non-immigrant Visas are tourist Visas that give you permission to stay for 12 months, and then you have to apply to have your 'permission to stay in the Kingdom' extended for another 12 months. Fact.  Prove me wrong by all means.

Just like here in Australia, Thai people can apply to move to UK as a Provisional Immigrant, and the process is very much the same as applying for a non-immigrant 12 months Visa to Thailand. Once they are accepted and arrive, they have rights to most Government services, including medical and can stay indefinitely. After being good and serving a 'qualifying period' they automatically become 'residents', and are then entitled to all Govt services. Then after another period of time they can apply to become full citizens. 

Your point about free services to Thai tourists is correct - and all Expats in Thailand are the same - tourists. 

But after 3 years an Expat that stays in Thailand full-time can apply to become a Thai Resident, and after a further period they can apply to become a Thai citizen.  That is different (easier) if the Expat is the female wife of a male Thai citizen.

 

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1 hour ago, AussieBob said:

Sorry mate, but they are Tourist Visas - that is the point.

All non-immigrant Visas are tourist Visas that give you permission to stay for 12 months, and then you have to apply to have your 'permission to stay in the Kingdom' extended for another 12 months. Fact.  Prove me wrong by all means.

Just like here in Australia, Thai people can apply to move to UK as a Provisional Immigrant, and the process is very much the same as applying for a non-immigrant 12 months Visa to Thailand. Once they are accepted and arrive, they have rights to most Government services, including medical and can stay indefinitely. After being good and serving a 'qualifying period' they automatically become 'residents', and are then entitled to all Govt services. Then after another period of time they can apply to become full citizens. 

Your point about free services to Thai tourists is correct - and all Expats in Thailand are the same - tourists. 

But after 3 years an Expat that stays in Thailand full-time can apply to become a Thai Resident, and after a further period they can apply to become a Thai citizen.  That is different (easier) if the Expat is the female wife of a male Thai citizen.

 

This bit I don't quite understand:

Once they are accepted and arrive, they have rights to most Government services, including medical and can stay indefinitely. After being good and serving a 'qualifying period' they automatically become 'residents', and are then entitled to all Govt services. Then after another period of time they can apply to become full citizens.

***********

My wife is on a Family (spouse) Visa. She has been in UK for 3.5 years and is allow to live here and work. However she is not allowed any government funding although she can use transport, banking etc. 

She is registered to use the health service but pays £1800 for the privilege.

She does not automatically become a resident, there is a long drawn out application process which is applied for and can be refused. Payment of more than £1000 is made as well for the visa. You need to be in the UK for up to 5 years before 'applying' for a British passport, it isn't automatic. Many Thais are in the country applying for extension visas as they have failed the 'Life in UK' test. They can continue to stay in the country as a spouse but are still not entitled to government funds and are required to keep paying for the visa and health surcharge.

There was a guy on another forum whose wife had supposedly failed the 'Life in UK' test 10 times (according to him) but was living in the UK more than 10 years.

I would love the UK to offer residency automatically to Thai spouses but it isn't that simple.

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13 minutes ago, Horizondave said:

She is registered to use the health service but pays £1800 for the privilege.

I would willingly pay that and more to be covered by the Thai government hospitals. I can't quite understand why Thailand does'nt have a mandatory scheme for expats living here and married to a Thai national.

My opinion............ 

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32 minutes ago, Horizondave said:

This bit I don't quite understand:

Once they are accepted and arrive, they have rights to most Government services, including medical and can stay indefinitely. After being good and serving a 'qualifying period' they automatically become 'residents', and are then entitled to all Govt services. Then after another period of time they can apply to become full citizens.

***********

My wife is on a Family (spouse) Visa. She has been in UK for 3.5 years and is allow to live here and work. However she is not allowed any government funding although she can use transport, banking etc. 

She is registered to use the health service but pays £1800 for the privilege.

She does not automatically become a resident, there is a long drawn out application process which is applied for and can be refused. Payment of more than £1000 is made as well for the visa. You need to be in the UK for up to 5 years before 'applying' for a British passport, it isn't automatic. Many Thais are in the country applying for extension visas as they have failed the 'Life in UK' test. They can continue to stay in the country as a spouse but are still not entitled to government funds and are required to keep paying for the visa and health surcharge.

There was a guy on another forum whose wife had supposedly failed the 'Life in UK' test 10 times (according to him) but was living in the UK more than 10 years.

I would love the UK to offer residency automatically to Thai spouses but it isn't that simple.

Is the Visa your wife applied for an immigrant Visa or a non-immigrant Visa - and did she apply for the Visa from overseas or was she granted an extension to stay in UK converting to a marriage Visa?  Obviously I know what I am talking about with regards to Australia as my wife did the application and process, but my understanding is that the UK is basically the same. 

For Australia a Thai can apply for a 'tourist/visitor' Visa as the 'sponsored' wife of a citizen, and can stay up to 12 months (with provision to extend).  For the UK I understand that a Thai wife of a UK citizen and stay on a 'marriage Visa' for up to 5 years - but they are still a visitor.  Perhaps this is what Visa she has? 

I might be wrong and maybe in UK things have been changed since I last discussed all this with a Pom some years ago.

 I have done a little research and found this:  

Check if you can get indefinite leave to remain - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

Indefinite leave to remain if you have family in the UK: Apply as a partner (family visa) - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Pumpuynarak said:

I would willingly pay that and more to be covered by the Thai government hospitals. I can't quite understand why Thailand does'nt have a mandatory scheme for expats living here and married to a Thai national.

My opinion............ 

Yes that is for the duration of the visa which is about 2.5 to 2.9 years. It is currently £600 per year for your first visa when arriving (£1800) although the subsequent visa (Porn is on her second visa) was only £1560 as she had paid for 3 years already but the visa started again at 2.9 years so a little less on her second visa.

It costs around £3000 for the privilege of getting a spouse visa for the UK which will carry on until you get a British passport (usually at 5 years if you pass the 'Life in UK' test). You can only get government funds once you have a British passport.

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1 hour ago, AussieBob said:

Is the Visa your wife applied for an immigrant Visa or a non-immigrant Visa - and did she apply for the Visa from overseas or was she granted an extension to stay in UK converting to a marriage Visa?  Obviously I know what I am talking about with regards to Australia as my wife did the application and process, but my understanding is that the UK is basically the same. 

For Australia a Thai can apply for a 'tourist/visitor' Visa as the 'sponsored' wife of a citizen, and can stay up to 12 months (with provision to extend).  For the UK I understand that a Thai wife of a UK citizen and stay on a 'marriage Visa' for up to 5 years - but they are still a visitor.  Perhaps this is what Visa she has? 

I might be wrong and maybe in UK things have been changed since I last discussed all this with a Pom some years ago.

 I have done a little research and found this:  

Check if you can get indefinite leave to remain - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

Indefinite leave to remain if you have family in the UK: Apply as a partner (family visa) - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

 

 

 

They call it a Family Visa now and Porn is on that visa based on being a spouse of a UK citizen. She has the right to remain and work in the UK for the duration of her visa, this is not a tourist visa.

We were married in Thailand and when I applied for her stay to come to the UK it was on the Family Visa route. We needed our marriage documents validated in the Embassy before applying. She arrived in April 2019. She had previously been to the UK on 3 tourist visas and returned to Thailand.

Last December we applied for her new Family visa in the UK which is slightly cheaper (Visa fee cheaper but International Health Surcharge increased). She has the right to remain in the UK until August 2024. She has no access to government funds but she can work. Even though she has no access to government funds the government still take her salary into account if I was seeking access to government funds.

You can not apply and pay for your visa until you have paid for the International Health Surcharge (IHS). You will not need to pay for the IHS if you are in Thailand and applying for a work visa in the NHS. If already in the UK and working for the NHS you can apply for a refund on the IHS fee. Porn is doing that right now.

In August 2024 she can apply for a British passport as part of the process of renewing her stay or just extending the right to stay and work with a visa extension.

Obviously if she gets her residency and British passport then she can apply for government funds and will be treated as a UK citizen and not an immigrant. 

It is a frustrating process.

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4 hours ago, AussieBob said:

So you think they are listening?😁 

You know it always amazes me how xenophobic most of the Thailand people in authority are (I do understand why).  They will seek help and advice from the Chinese and Japanese about road and railway constructions etc etc.  But they would never think to ask the current 'good' Expats what they think about the issues in Thailand for good Expats and how to bring more of the good ones into the country.  They think that the Chinese have the Thai people's best interests at heart (wrong) and that all Expats who live in Thailand are just 'dirty sexpats' and only want to take advantage of Thai people (also wrong).

Maybe one day they will 'listen' - maybe. 

This is their country and they make the rules. We are merely guests and have to live within their rules or f**k off back to where we came from and that is no different the world over.

Anyway, whatever made you arrive at the conclusion that Thailand even wants Expats?

They have demonstrated over the years that they just about tolerate Expats but in no way go out of their way to make life easy for Expats. They want tourists not the lesser unwashed farlang Expat community.

Look how difficult it is now to renew a Retirement Visa based upon income only requirements.

Would anyone be at all surprised if they made a substantial increase to the 800K lump sum alternative?

Do they still intend to make compulsory medical insurance as part of the Retirement Visa renewal process? Little problem if you are age 50 with no prior adverse medical problems but quite possibly impossible at age 70 or beyond.

Self funding in lieu of medical insurance. Smoke and mirrors for most Expats. Did you read Larry's comments about his double hip replacement surgery? That cost a million baht about 10 years ago. The cost would be more than double that these days.

I will never forget my first renewal of my Retirement Visa in Jomtien. Went through all the hoops myself, paid the fee and waited for my Passport to be returned. The toffee packer official who processed retirement Visa's at Jomtien for a number of years actually had my passport in his hand when the lady at the desk behind him said something to him. He turned round and in doing so literally threw my passport to me which hit my chest and fell on the floor. That sums up perfectly what they think of expats in Thailand!

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7 hours ago, Jambo said:

This is their country and they make the rules. We are merely guests and have to live within their rules or f**k off back to where we came from and that is no different the world over.

Anyway, whatever made you arrive at the conclusion that Thailand even wants Expats?

They have demonstrated over the years that they just about tolerate Expats but in no way go out of their way to make life easy for Expats. They want tourists not the lesser unwashed farlang Expat community.

Look how difficult it is now to renew a Retirement Visa based upon income only requirements.

Would anyone be at all surprised if they made a substantial increase to the 800K lump sum alternative?

Do they still intend to make compulsory medical insurance as part of the Retirement Visa renewal process? Little problem if you are age 50 with no prior adverse medical problems but quite possibly impossible at age 70 or beyond.

Self funding in lieu of medical insurance. Smoke and mirrors for most Expats. Did you read Larry's comments about his double hip replacement surgery? That cost a million baht about 10 years ago. The cost would be more than double that these days.

I will never forget my first renewal of my Retirement Visa in Jomtien. Went through all the hoops myself, paid the fee and waited for my Passport to be returned. The toffee packer official who processed retirement Visa's at Jomtien for a number of years actually had my passport in his hand when the lady at the desk behind him said something to him. He turned round and in doing so literally threw my passport to me which hit my chest and fell on the floor. That sums up perfectly what they think of expats in Thailand!

They do want quality tourists but they also want quality expats, mainly the ones who work and pay taxes and, for the most, add some positive economic benefits to Thailand.

They equate a smile and welcome with how much you spend a day which they can verify, probably not really interested in a lot of people who manage to nurse a 45 baht beer and balloon chase every night. Unfortunately there are a lot of negatives associated with Pattaya and that includes a lot of its foreign inhabitants.

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14 hours ago, Horizondave said:

They call it a Family Visa now and Porn is on that visa based on being a spouse of a UK citizen. She has the right to remain and work in the UK for the duration of her visa, this is not a tourist visa.

We were married in Thailand and when I applied for her stay to come to the UK it was on the Family Visa route. We needed our marriage documents validated in the Embassy before applying. She arrived in April 2019. She had previously been to the UK on 3 tourist visas and returned to Thailand.

Last December we applied for her new Family visa in the UK which is slightly cheaper (Visa fee cheaper but International Health Surcharge increased). She has the right to remain in the UK until August 2024. She has no access to government funds but she can work. Even though she has no access to government funds the government still take her salary into account if I was seeking access to government funds.

You can not apply and pay for your visa until you have paid for the International Health Surcharge (IHS). You will not need to pay for the IHS if you are in Thailand and applying for a work visa in the NHS. If already in the UK and working for the NHS you can apply for a refund on the IHS fee. Porn is doing that right now.

In August 2024 she can apply for a British passport as part of the process of renewing her stay or just extending the right to stay and work with a visa extension.

Obviously if she gets her residency and British passport then she can apply for government funds and will be treated as a UK citizen and not an immigrant. 

It is a frustrating process.

I hear you mate - and I hope it all goes well for you and Porn. I was not aware of the new processes they have put in place for Thais married to a UK citizen that want to be become permanent residents.  Probably too many people were taking advantage of it - maybe too many coming illegally and they hads to tighten things up?  They will probably tighten up here in Aust in the near future, but for now (as far as I know) it is a much easier process here than in the UK that is for sure.  Patience and persistence mate - good luck with it all.

Now that my wife has Citizenship and a Passport, we can travel to and from Thailand as much as we like - after I get the pension of course. Plus we can live there for some time and then we can both come back at anytime. There are not many things better here than in Thailand - road safety (oppression) is one, and free medical services is the other.  If/when medical costs get too much, or we get in the sheite with a local mafia/police/hiso, then a return is on the cards. 

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13 hours ago, Jambo said:

This is their country and they make the rules. We are merely guests and have to live within their rules or f**k off back to where we came from and that is no different the world over.

Anyway, whatever made you arrive at the conclusion that Thailand even wants Expats?

They have demonstrated over the years that they just about tolerate Expats but in no way go out of their way to make life easy for Expats. They want tourists not the lesser unwashed farlang Expat community.

Look how difficult it is now to renew a Retirement Visa based upon income only requirements.

Would anyone be at all surprised if they made a substantial increase to the 800K lump sum alternative?

Do they still intend to make compulsory medical insurance as part of the Retirement Visa renewal process? Little problem if you are age 50 with no prior adverse medical problems but quite possibly impossible at age 70 or beyond.

Self funding in lieu of medical insurance. Smoke and mirrors for most Expats. Did you read Larry's comments about his double hip replacement surgery? That cost a million baht about 10 years ago. The cost would be more than double that these days.

I will never forget my first renewal of my Retirement Visa in Jomtien. Went through all the hoops myself, paid the fee and waited for my Passport to be returned. The toffee packer official who processed retirement Visa's at Jomtien for a number of years actually had my passport in his hand when the lady at the desk behind him said something to him. He turned round and in doing so literally threw my passport to me which hit my chest and fell on the floor. That sums up perfectly what they think of expats in Thailand!

Sorry to hear you had such a bad experience first time round - and probably not much positive stuff since then - I understand why you have taken the 'sucking it up and just living with it' path in regards to the matter.

However, I can assure you that the majority of Thai people do not feel the same way about Expats as the Thai Military and Police - and even then not all Military and Police feel that way too. And most ordinary Thais know that they are better off with Expats livcing there than hordes of Indians and Chinese who spenmd very little time with them, and spend most of their money in places owned by wealthy Thais (especially the Thainese ones).

I should point out in case you did not realise this but the 'Immigration' in Thailand is the Police. The immigration 'Department' is actually a part of the Thai Police - they control all compliance with the Immigration laws but they do not make them (and they interpret them the way to see fit from Officer to Officer and Office to Office. 

The Thai 'people' that we are talking about are the ones who make the laws. Currently it is the Thainese Military, who as you say, dislike 'western' Expats and have made that very clear. But hopefully things will change in the future and a new Thai Govt will make things a little fairer and more reasonable. 

Who knows, with the current Junta Govt in the 'poopoo' and experiencing economic troubles, with bugger all tourists and wealthy retirees that TAT constantly predicted.  They might (might) decide to join in with the other countries all around the world who are making attractive Expat 'retirement' packages to encourage them to come and spend their money there.  The cheap charlie sexpat arrangements are gone forever (good IMO), but the Junta just might realise that 1000 financially moderate Expats is worth a lot more than 10 wealthy retirees - which is what the other countries realised long ago. Malaysia is not possible for a sexpat living off only their pension and spending most of their money on bars and girls - but it is possible for someone with a reasonable retirement fund. 

10 years ago Thailand was always the number 1 2 or 3 recommended place for western Expats to retire on all the Expat websites.  Now Thailand is not in most top 10 lists - places like Panama, Costa Rica, Malaysia and Spain are all way ahead of Thailand. 

Like you, I am resigned to living in Thailand in the future, because I am married to a Thai. I just hope that one day the Thai Junta will make it easier for me to live in Thailand - maybe not as easy as it is for my Thai wife to live in Australia, but at least a little bit closer to that level of fairness - especially about medical services and insurance. 

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22 hours ago, AussieBob said:

Sorry mate, but they are Tourist Visas - that is the point.

All non-immigrant Visas are tourist Visas that give you permission to stay for 12 months, and then you have to apply to have your 'permission to stay in the Kingdom' extended for another 12 months. Fact.  Prove me wrong by all means.

They are clearly differentiated by the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs where you apply and are clearly marked "Tourist" and "TR" or "Non-Immigant" and "O" (in my case) on the passport sticker (*) so to say that they are the same stretches the imagination more than a bit.  They are different visas for different purposes.

It's not that long before Covid that people doing border runs and living in Thailand on tourist visas were being refused entry and told to get the correct visa as they clearly weren't tourists in anyone's eyes.

* - I've not seen a new stickerless visa but presume they follow a similar format.

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12 hours ago, Horizondave said:

 but they also want quality expats, mainly the ones who work and pay taxes and, for the most, add some positive economic benefits to Thailand

Why must it be an economic benefit?

Whilst working on the farm living "in the village" a group of teachers visited me and asked if I would help out at the village school. At the time I'd been up an hour before dawn to get the kiln loaded and fired up so that by the time they arrived unannounced I was properly ratassed, sweaty, half naked and dirty from sawing up wood and chugging beer ..... and that is the scenario that many anti-expat like to imagine thug expats to look like!

I ended up working under a Government project to teach English in the schools .... for free! I know that I sound like a pompous git but I like to think that I helped at least one child along the way!!

There is a MASSIVE input that expats can offer Thailand free of charge and free of work permit! 

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