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Finnair - beware


Britboy

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1 minute ago, Britboy said:

Oh, for sure. I get inundated with credit card offers (especially from HSBC), but never take them and haven't had a credit card for over 10 years now.

The protection side of CC's is worth considering, honestly didn't know there was any difference in that aspect between CC and DC.

But as I'll be in Thailand permanently now I have no need for a UK CC. I assume the Thai banks don't offer CC's to farang on retirement visas?

Main reason for a CC is for online purchases really, much more protection than a debit card. Don't need the credit facility itself as I'm not one for spending beyond my means these days.

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31 minutes ago, karon steve said:

Do you getter better online purchase protection from a credit rather than Pay Pal?

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/credit-cards/PayPal-Section75/

The above is a good summary of the issue.  One thing to remember is that Pay Pal is not a bank or building society and not subject to many regulations which apply to banks and other regulated financial institutions.

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Sorry I wasn't very concise. I am thinking of using a new to me travel agency to buy an airline ticket.
Does Pay Pal provide customer protection for services or just goods? I will call Pay Pal tomorrow and ask the question. When I get an answer I will post it.

Does a credit card provide better protection if the agency scams me?

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1 hour ago, karon steve said:

Sorry I wasn't very concise. I am thinking of using a new to me travel agency to buy an airline ticket.
Does Pay Pal provide customer protection for services or just goods? I will call Pay Pal tomorrow and ask the question. When I get an answer I will post it.

Does a credit card provide better protection if the agency scams me?

i have had refunds n other products via paypal.  several in fact.  pp hlds the money back for quite a while from the vendor.  but we are talking days not weeks.  i would want to get my reservation number and check it on the airline website for safety.  I use a debit card here as PP cancelled most thai accounts, especially business ones.  the debit card has the MC logo so has the MC security in purchases.  hope that helps

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8 hours ago, karon steve said:

Sorry I wasn't very concise. I am thinking of using a new to me travel agency to buy an airline ticket.
Does Pay Pal provide customer protection for services or just goods? I will call Pay Pal tomorrow and ask the question. When I get an answer I will post it.

Does a credit card provide better protection if the agency scams me?

I lost 70K baht paying cash to a travel agent in Pattaya Tai for two return flights to the UK. I used it every year without problems until the owner did a runner!

Since then I always booked long haul flights direct with the airline.

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1 hour ago, Jambo said:

I lost 70K baht paying cash to a travel agent in Pattaya Tai for two return flights to the UK. I used it every year without problems until the owner did a runner!

Since then I always booked long haul flights direct with the airline.

Totally agree.. but I was lucky!

For years I used an agent on Soi Post Office no problems but then the lady in the Naklua Branch did a runner with everybody's deposits.

Always booked direct after that near miss!

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I took a long look at Fin-Air last October when I had to travel to the states. They had an attractive price and a decent schedule, but at that time I noticed that they were cancelling flights left and right at the last minute.

I ended up buying a one-way Business Class ticket back to Thailand from JAL. I had used the last of my One World award points to get to the US. I paid about 4500 USD for the return ticket, but I was glad I did. My old bod (73) needs Business Class a this point. This did work out well, as I suffered an attack of Bursitis a few days before departure. First time I went through this. It really effin hurts.

The JAL trans-Pacific flight from ORD was great. Really comfortable. The leg down to BKK from NRT not so much. The Business Class seat matched better a premium economy seat description. Still JAL did make the run as described despite the ORD-NRT leg being 75% empty. I will remember that.

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Quick update as I'm now in Patts.

To be fair, the flights part of Finnair was good. I bought the "comfort seats" because it was advertised as more legroom. I managed to book seat 25A on both legs.

It was actually the same plane on both legs. I wondered if that might be the case and it was.

The "comfort seat" is actually better than prem econ on other airlines. I had quite a big of leg space. It was a relatively new plane, an Airbus but can't remember the exact number.

The crew were very good on both legs and I enjoyed the flights. Bonus for me was the smoking lounge in Helsinki airport, we pulled up at gate 44 and although 11 pm there was still a bar open about 200 yards from the gate, with the smoking lounge in between the bar and the gate. Ideal.

Only complaint I had was on boarding for the Helsinki to BKK leg. The plane was actually rammed and they called "pre-boarding" to go from the outer gate to the inner gate. The inner gate was quite small, so after the usual rush of people (I can never get that, we're going to be sitting for nearly 12 hours, why rush to get on the damned thing?) the inner gate filled up, so they stopped "pre-boarding". To me, "pre-boarding" are the families with small kids and the elderly, but a huge line of regular people built up and they let them all in, until it got full.

So contradictory to the Heathrow boarding, in what was a half full plane. There were group numbers and at Heathrow they called group numbers in turn and boarding was smooth and pretty quick. At Helsinki, no mention of group numbers so the "pre-boarders" were a mish mash of every group. So you can guess, when they actually boarded the plane it took ages as it wasn't boarded from the back to the front. Very frustrating and I mentioned it to one of the stewardesses as I waited by the galley, who raised her eyes and said "yes, I can tell".

So, apart from their mess up with the "pending" charge and boarding in Helsinki, everything else was good and I'd use Finnair again.

I don't know what the fly time was before the Ukraine situation, but I imagine it was quicker than the 11.5 hours it took us. Not flying over Russian air space meant we flew due south for ages before turning east. The maps and cameras to view were actually excellent.

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17 hours ago, karon steve said:

I called Pay Pal and they confirmed that both goods and services are covered by customer protection.
I specifically asked if buying an airline ticket from a travel agency was covered and it was a definite yes.

How did you manage to speak to anybody at Paypal on the telephone?

I found that impossible to achieve.

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18 hours ago, karon steve said:

I called Pay Pal and they confirmed that both goods and services are covered by customer protection.
I specifically asked if buying an airline ticket from a travel agency was covered and it was a definite yes.

I am not wanting to be pedantic but covered by customer protection is a pretty meaningless term.  A lot more detail is required to make a reasoned assessment on the level of 'protection'.

 

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Went on their website and trolled through "contact". Got a 6 digit number for easy access and then called the free number given 0203 901 7000 and entered the number which I think helped me jump any queues as I was straight in. All quite easy apart from faffing with the automated "why are you calling".

I am in England maybe Thailand is different.

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3 hours ago, karon steve said:

 

3 hours ago, john luke said:

Thanks for the link.  On superficial speed read through, there are quite a number of exceptions; it is not as comprehensive as the s75 Protection offered when using a credit card.  

I agree with JL. The examples section on the page linked to doesn't mention airline tickets.
It's times like these that we can help out.

  • You bought a book but got a DVD.
  • You bought a new item but got something used.
  • You purchased 3 items but only got 2.
  • Your purchase was damaged in transit.
  • Your delivery was missing major parts (that the seller didn't disclose).
  • You bought an authentic brand but got a knock-off instead.

When I asked Mr. Google about protection for tickets purchased, he/she/them/their/? gave me this link.
https://www.paypal.com/hk/webapps/mpp/travel-with-paypal

On that page I found these comforting words.

With a little extra peace of mind, you can go a long way from home.
From last-minute city breaks in Barcelona to jungle trekking in Nepal, PayPal provides a secure way to pay. Your card details are securely encrypted in one place with PayPal so you can enjoy your holiday no matter where you go.

What caught my eye is the highlighted bit, which to me implies you're protected as long as you use the credit card linked to your PayPal account.

If it were me, I'd skip using PayPal for airline ticket purchases and stick with using my credit card directly.

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3 hours ago, bob lt said:

I have previously read that credit card protection is only valid where there is a direct link between buyer and seller.

I take this to mean payments through a third party i.e. PayPal would not be covered.

The relationship must be between debtor creditor and seller.  

Issues can arise for example when buying through an agent.  

Lots of information on the internet.

It is necessary to look at what the person/organisation you buy from promises.  They may agree to sell you a ticket for a concert for example.  Once they give you the ticket their responsibility is ended and if the concert is cancelled they are not responsible.  Bit over simplistic but a good example of a DCS agreement.

Third party sellers on Amazon UK is another example.  Although Amazon may offer certain protections it may not be possible to make a s75 claim as the DCS part is between yourself, card company and Amazon and the third party seller on Amazon is not included.

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16 hours ago, bob lt said:

I have previously read that credit card protection is only valid where there is a direct link between buyer and seller.

I take this to mean payments through a third party i.e. PayPal would not be covered.

Partially correct, if you break the debtor, creditor supplier link by paying from a Paypal balance.  That means you've paid Paypal and Paypal have paid, for example, Finnair.  Broken link between you, Visa or Mastercard and Finnair.

If Finnair on requesting payment direct you to Paypal and you use them as a payment processor only you are covered.  Paypal are just acting as a Mastercard or Visa equivalent in these cases so it doesn't break the link.

A grey area is where Paypal are the payment processor and you're logged in to your account as it can be difficult to tell whether Paypal actually paid Finnair or just acted as a payment processor, so make sure you log out of any account when asked to use Paypal.

Paypal have their own purchase protection for both buyer and seller but I don't know much about it.

What karon steve actually needs to know is whether Paypal are being used as a payment processor or will he be paying from his Paypal account.  If the former then all is good.  If the latter then he's relying on Paypal and not the law to stand up for him.  I know I wouldn't want that.

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After speaking with Nat West Mastercard I was told that I can preload my card over my limit to cover my purchase but as it is over my normal credit limit I am no longer covered by customer protection.

If I load the card and then decide not to proceed I can phone them and they will do a bulk transfer of that money back in to my bank account for no charge.

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